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Monk or Mingus?

post #1 of 31
8/2/08 at 1:39pm
Thread Starter 
OK, here's one for the jazzers, chosen because composer-instrumentalists Thelonious Monk and Charles Mingus took the influence of Duke Ellington in amazingly different directions. Which direction really does it for you?
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post #2 of 31
8/2/08 at 2:16pm
This is an easy one for me, Thelonious forever. It's not that I dislike or don't appreciate and enjoy Mingus, but Monk has for me that "something". Though I needed a bit to really get to love his music.

Rgrds
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post #3 of 31
8/2/08 at 2:35pm
Monk get's my vote on this one. Mingus is great, but a little too controlled in style, especially with his jazz workshop recordings like Mingus Ah Um. I prefer the loose style of Monk in general.

By the way, I like the addition of the "I'm not voting" choice, especially after the two Dylan polls.
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post #4 of 31
8/2/08 at 3:50pm
I voted "can't choose" because I haven't listened to everything by both of them yet to decide properly. I do like both very much and Mingus is maybe a nose ahead because the Black Saint and the Sinner Lady is in the top five of my all time favorites of any genre...
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post #5 of 31
8/2/08 at 10:50pm
Goin' with Mingus.......probably Jazz's most sublime genius of a composer......a nod goes to Ellington, Strayhorn, Shorter and Monk as well.....and anyone else who i'm forgetting at the moment

EDIT: Oh and my favorite Mingus recordings are.....
Black Saint & the Sinner Lady
Changes 1 and 2
Let My Children Hear Music
Mingus Ah Um

-and you gotta hear that awesome recording of the "The Quintet" at Massey Hall......Mingus, Bird, Diz, Bud and Max.........not the best quality recording, but the greatest lineup of bop players ever assembled.
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post #6 of 31
8/3/08 at 3:01am
Never heard about any of them, so voted "I won't choose,..."
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post #7 of 31
8/3/08 at 5:37am
They're both so great it really uncomfortable to "choose"... I say both.
krmathis, why then post anything at all in this thread?
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post #8 of 31
8/3/08 at 8:10am
I suspect that Monk can play piano much better than Mingus but Mingus has the edge when playing string bass. Perhaps they should have played together in the same quintet or sextet. These two were the greatest geniuses in 50s jazz. Don't worry about which one was better and get lots of recordings by both. I suppose that Mingus has the edge in new innovation. His very complicated arrangements seem modern and fresh to this day. I just bought Pithecanthropus Erectus and Blues and Roots last month. Wonderful stuff. Don't be caught with it.
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post #9 of 31
8/3/08 at 11:01am
Mingus here. Mingus Ah Um changed my life.
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post #10 of 31
8/3/08 at 11:06am
Thread Starter 
…if I can poke my nose in, I'd say that Monk's genius is his "sound," a sonic vocabulary that introduces itself as iconic—knotty, distinctive, fun and instantly recognizable—while with Mingus you get a "vision" that is astonishingly voracious; it embraces everything from bluesy backbeats to classically-derived pedal points. Obviously, both have proven durable.

Faves:

Genius of Modern Music, Vols. 1 and 2
Brilliant Corners
…at Carnegie Hall (Thelonious Monk Quartet with John Coltrane)


Mingus Ah Um
Pithecanthropus Erectus
Mingus, Mingus, Mingus, Mingus, Mingus…


Quote:
Originally Posted by krmathis View Post
Never heard about any of them, so voted "I won't choose,..."
Thanx for voting, krmathis, but I must confess: I don't believe you.
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post #11 of 31
8/3/08 at 12:27pm
I have a stack of records by each but i have never taken the time to really listen to them. I think this might be some motivation to finish building my phono preamp and have a listen.
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post #12 of 31
8/3/08 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssportclay View Post
I suspect that Monk can play piano much better than Mingus but Mingus has the edge when playing string bass. Perhaps they should have played together in the same quintet or sextet.
From what I understand, they did play together in '53 at the Putnam Central Club in Brooklyn when Mingus was hosting the jazz workshops.

Looking on the web, I also found this:

To my knowledge there is no recording where Monk and Mingus play together, but a classic photograph taken by Robert Parents in 1953 shows Charlie Parker, Monk, Mingus and Roy Haynes in action at the "Open Door" in Greenwich Village, New York. In Gene Santoro's book "Myself When I Am Real - The Life and Music of Charlie Mingus" (Oxford University Press, 2000), which contains a detailed summary of Mingus' music and his turbulent career, there is a note that in the same year Mingus played with Monk on the Steve Allen Show.
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post #13 of 31
8/3/08 at 3:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimJo View Post
From what I understand, they did play together in '53 at the Putnam Central Club in Brooklyn when Mingus was hosting the jazz workshops.
Wow! Just curious…where'd you find that info? I actually live pretty close to that location. Went by a long time ago; it had become a fraternal lodge for mechanics or something.
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post #14 of 31
8/4/08 at 9:00am
This one I can't call....they are both seminal. Pass.
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post #15 of 31
8/4/08 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tru blu View Post
Wow! Just curious…where'd you find that info? I actually live pretty close to that location. Went by a long time ago; it had become a fraternal lodge for mechanics or something.
I read about the history of the jazz workshops in liner notes on Mingus recordings, and this was mentioned. I guess he played with Max Roach, Horace Silver, Art Blakey - a bunch of those cats who were around in early 50's. Sadly those early performances were never recorded. Although, who knows, something could show up like what happened with Monk and the Five Spot and Carnegie Hall recordings. You never know....
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