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CDP into PC, really?

post #1 of 38
7/28/08 at 7:07am
Thread Starter 
so I recently got what I've found to be a decent CD player (Sony CDP-X111ES) it works basically 100% afaik (needs the variable output pot cleaned, but i'm already on that (got some caig deoxit on the way, just going to have a cleaning day))

i can't play with the digital output because its optical only (really? c'mon...coax so i can be cheap and at least test with sub-par cabling) but after I get that cable (again, thats np)

i'm wondering, is it really worth it to pipe this into the computer's optical input for ripping CDs, i.e: is there an actual quality increase here (if you just say "it sounds better", no thank you, but if its something like "the laser in that is going to be better and less jittery than the laser in your cheapo DVD-RW drive and thus you have a cleaner digital source", i could believe that)

or is it just something that studios do to strut their fancy digital audio transports?
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post #2 of 38
7/28/08 at 7:29am
Stop reading topics on head-fi that are more debates than things to worry yourself sick about. Climate change is far more important.

You are not going to get more out of the audio data stream than there is in it. 'It sounds better' is a big statement, and I wouldn't have liked to pick even a girlfriend based on such an expression, if you know what I mean.
If you want 'better' sound from your discs, borrow a DAC from a friend or get one on trial from a dealer. Then connect the CDP via Toslink to the DAC and see if there is an improvement. Then try the same thing with your PC and see which one is more pleasing to you.
Not all PC playback is good, unless you take their output to an external DAC. My $2K PC sounds nowhere as good as my $2K laptop, and they both sound worse than my $600 CDP/DAC set up.
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post #3 of 38
7/28/08 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 
so you're saying, going from the digital output into the digital in on my PC's soundcard, and using that as a DAC, vs just taking analog output from the CDP, is proably not going to do much of anything for me in terms of playback

and its kind of worthless for recording purposes?


like, i'm entirely satisfied with its analog output, i'm just wondering if its really going to be some sort of massive change if i switch from the analog outs to the digital out on my cdp

also, the variable outs are basically worthless, right?

as far as the soundcard on my PC goes, currently its an Audigy 2 ZS Platinum, which has pretty good SNR/THD figures for its age and price

and i'm looking at M-Audio's Firewire 410 as a replacement, because its a step up in sound quality, and gives me more control over the input/output capabilities, so if that helps you any in assessing what i've got, PC wise (i know most stock audio is garbage vs aftermarket, and I know the D/A on the Audigy 2 isn't bad, i've never played with its optical feeds though)
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post #4 of 38
7/28/08 at 1:45pm
The analog outs are as good as the DAC inside the player. If it is bad, you can get the digital out from it to a different DAC (standalone or within a different device, such as a soundcard), and this other DAC will give you a different analog out, which can be good or bad. Only your ears can tell. I have a good DAC and I can tell the difference between a cheap DVD analog out and its digital-->DAC. Sound better. Dont know how good your CD analog out is, though.
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post #5 of 38
7/31/08 at 10:47pm
The Audigy 2 ZS (and complete Audigy line) is not capable of bit-perfect playback. It will resample the audio to 16-bit/48 kHz using poor algorithms.

The laser mechanisms inside of CD players are not necessarily better than a typical computer burner and in some cases are worse. The computer playback and ripping process is much, much better because it allows for a secure error-free rip. There is absolutely no reason to connect a CD player's digital output to a computer.

Connecting a CD player's analog outputs to the computer is a worse idea, because the signal will eventually have to come back out of the sound card. CD player DAC -> sound card ADC -> sound card DAC, with quality loss at each stage.
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post #6 of 38
8/1/08 at 2:33am
Thread Starter 
i know the Audigy 2 ZS will resample, but it isn't to 16-bit from everything i've found on it, just to 48khz, because of how it handles SRC, it isn't actually that big of a deal if you're not moving to other sample rates (and its only SRC, the output is still whatever you have it set to, it just goes from input (say 24/96) to 48khz internally for processing and then back up to 96khz))

i know, its less than ideal, but its what I have currently, and I'm looking at upgrade options, its just there isn't much out there that really appeals to me, as far as the connection to the PC, I was thinking about the ripping process, and how the internal drive usually benefits from error correction, which is a big plus, but yeah, I'm getting what you're saying on the digital to PC connection as kind of pointless


and life goes on...
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post #7 of 38
8/1/08 at 4:20am
You want to rip music error free and bit perfect? Then I'll tell you my secret on how to accomplish that. And you read it here first.
Get a good CD duplication software that can store the copied file in ISO format. Set the copier settings for it to compare the copy against the original for any errors.
If it passes, then store the copied ISO file. I use NERO to copy etc.
Next, install Deamon Tools so that you can mount the ISO file as a virtual disc.
Now do the music ripping from the mounted ISO file.

As a side note, take your PC off-line and then switch off your virus checker and firewall for added speed and accuracy when ripping. Some of these virus checkers and firewalls tend to interfere with the ripping process and its accuracy as they try to check the ripped files for virus etc.
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post #8 of 38
8/1/08 at 9:13am
Thread Starter 
ok, thats a bit drastic (the off-line/virus checker thing) just to rip music, and my virus checker isn't that intrusive, at least i've never noticed problems (and i have a hardware firewall, so, i'm good on that front)

never thought of mounting and ripping from an ISO, into something thats relatively flawless quality wise (say, WMA Lossless)
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post #9 of 38
8/2/08 at 2:15am
It's easier and more reliable to use Exact Audio Copy with AccurateRip. You won't have perfect rips until you set your specific drive's read and write offsets. Check out jiGGafellz's EAC setup guide and by the time you're finished, you'll have the best rips possible.
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post #10 of 38
8/2/08 at 3:24am
i see what you did thar
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post #11 of 38
8/3/08 at 9:38am
Thread Starter 
nice link infinitesymphony, amazing information

this is why i love this board, lol, always at least two really good options for any problem
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post #12 of 38
8/3/08 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB1 View Post
You want to rip music error free and bit perfect? Then I'll tell you my secret on how to accomplish that. And you read it here first.
Get a good CD duplication software that can store the copied file in ISO format. Set the copier settings for it to compare the copy against the original for any errors.
If it passes, then store the copied ISO file. I use NERO to copy etc.
Next, install Deamon Tools so that you can mount the ISO file as a virtual disc.
Now do the music ripping from the mounted ISO file.

As a side note, take your PC off-line and then switch off your virus checker and firewall for added speed and accuracy when ripping. Some of these virus checkers and firewalls tend to interfere with the ripping process and its accuracy as they try to check the ripped files for virus etc.
Well, either that or you could just turn on the error correction in iTunes. It accomplishes exactly the same result -- music files on your hard drive that are a bit-perfect match to the CD they were ripped from. This is truly a case of bits is bits.

OP - I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here, but if you're asking if you should use a cdp to rip music files to your computer, no. They are different processes. The data cd drive in your computer will "play" cds (badly), but this is not what it does when ripping to your hard drive. Instead, it reads chunks of data from your cd to your drive, checks them for accuracy then starts another chunk. It doesn't "play" the cd in real time, so all of the stability issues that are important in cd players are irrelevant. This is the best way to get music off of a cd and into a computer. Even a $10,000 cdp could not do it better.

Tim
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post #13 of 38
8/3/08 at 5:40pm
Thread Starter 
no what i'm saying is for playback of CD's and whatnot, is it worth it to have the CDP going into the system, I've already ruled out using it to rip (it takes too long, plus, everything you said, which I already knew) but for playback, would it be better to run the CDP into the PC, via digital, vs the data drive (will I really notice a huge quality improvement?)

and I generally refuse to use Apple software, so iTunes isn't an option for me
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post #14 of 38
8/3/08 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
no what i'm saying is for playback of CD's and whatnot, is it worth it to have the CDP going into the system, I've already ruled out using it to rip (it takes too long, plus, everything you said, which I already knew) but for playback, would it be better to run the CDP into the PC, via digital, vs the data drive (will I really notice a huge quality improvement?)

and I generally refuse to use Apple software, so iTunes isn't an option for me
I don't know if you'll notice a huge quality improvement or not. It depends on how quiet it is inside your computer, the quality of the DAC built into your sound card and the stability of the cd drive. The latter is iffy. CD drives in computers are rarely as stable and smooth as even inexpensive cd players, because they're not really meant for playing cds.

Don't know why you feel that way about Apple software, but it doesn't matter. Any decent cd-ripping/burning software should have error protection. It is a very simple thing to check the file on the hard drive against the same information on the cd and make sure you have a match before moving on to the next section. There is no good reason not to do it.

Tim
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post #15 of 38
8/3/08 at 7:25pm
Thread Starter 
yeah, I use error correction in my current media library for CD ripping, I was just wondering if going from the CDP into something like Audacity gave a huge quality increase, ignoring that it takes bleeding ages, given that a lot of studios have setups like that

although with error correction and whatnot, I don't think there'll be any real difference, except it not taking 1+ hours to rip a CD
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