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Single Power Audio craftsmanship? What do you think? (photos) - Page 3

post #31 of 130
It's "art", if you consider Jackson Pollock's work "art" as well...:

post #32 of 130
Another point that seems to be disregarded here is that all those fancy caps are upgrades that were added or substituted at the request of the original owner or Elephas. I realize it looks crazy inside that box -- and I know that some builders make things look neater -- but these parts were not in the amp as stock and just might explain the current appearance at least in part. I like p-to-p wiring in an amp and do not really care if it looks messy so long as it is stable and sounds as great as my three different SinglePower p-to-p amps have all sounded.

Another thing to note is that Mikhail uses PCBs for most of his current production amps, and has offered them as optional to p-to-p for years. The SDS-XLR board looks like a 14" LP complete with center hole. It is a work of art that is thick as hell and weighs a crazy amount. I cannot find a pic, and wish I had one. The ES-1 PCB and PPX3 versions look pretty neat too:







This issue crops up every couple of years, thus the deja vu comments. If all of SP's p-to-p amps had problems, I don't think they would be in business any more.
post #33 of 130

It Absolutely Does...

It absolutely does explain why it takes so long to get one...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/whe...ikhail-333677/

A "mad scientist" indeed!
post #34 of 130
Being upgrades as you mention brings us to another point. Maybe so much mucking about under the hood is one of the factors contributing to all of his problems. As for the Golden Monkey, That is a painting, we are speaking of amps. Well done amps or electronics in general are nice and tidy inside, look into it and im sure you will get an understanding that you dont have just yet. Look inside your Little-Dot, probably looks better than that rats nest in the pictures above.
post #35 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
As for the Golden Monkey, That is a painting, we are speaking of amps. Well done amps or electronics in general are nice and tidy inside, look into it and im sure you will get an understanding that you dont have just yet. Look inside your Little-Dot, probably looks better than that rats nest in the pictures above.
Don't get all pissed off and snarky with me just because we have a disagreement on another thread...lol.

I'm well aware of what an amp looks like inside, thanks. Yes, the MKV is well laid out and tidy. And yes, I know we're talking amps here...I was illustrating that one man's "art" is another man's "mess". The SP amps may sound great (and that's what really matters), but they look like crap under the hood, components aside.
post #36 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
Being upgrades as you mention brings us to another point. Maybe so much mucking about under the hood is one of the factors contributing to all of his problems.
If you are referring to delays on delivery times, yes this has been mentioned as a problem. Something of a fault of mikhail is that he is willing to improve and modify even his base line amps.

It has been recommended before that he really should make the PPx3 like a raptor, one way and nothing but that. The MPx3 should have 2 or 3 upgrade paths, and then an "unlimited class." this would allow him to use machine stuffed boards like other people do, which saves LOTS of time.

Custom work would still have a lead time, but it could be reduced if he didnt spend time upgrading low-bill stuff. although the lower SP amps improve with mods and sound great stock, people should just buy the next thing up off the shelf until you need custom.
post #37 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post
If you are referring to delays on delivery times, yes this has been mentioned as a problem. Something of a fault of mikhail is that he is willing to improve and modify even his base line amps.

It has been recommended before that he really should make the PPx3 like a raptor, one way and nothing but that. The MPx3 should have 2 or 3 upgrade paths, and then an "unlimited class." this would allow him to use machine stuffed boards like other people do, which saves LOTS of time.

Custom work would still have a lead time, but it could be reduced if he didnt spend time upgrading low-bill stuff. although the lower SP amps improve with mods and sound great stock, people should just buy the next thing up off the shelf until you need custom.
Exactly
post #38 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
I disagree, those are supposed to be some of the best amps out there. Show me another amp builder at this level who does work like that. Maybe that painting is art but that logic does not translate into amp building. Go buy a car that looks like that under the hood, long as it works right? Wrong. Snary Snarky...LOL
cary, there is a photo of their $2000 (used) 300sei amp on the first page of this thread.

its also worth note that mikhail uses a VERY proper star ground technique. most of the wires are grounds... not as clean looking as a ground bus, but offers some sonic advantages.

edited:
anything that still uses a cap&rotor distributor or vacuum actuated devices looks about like that. they have jsut gotten better at hiding things. old technology, but this is a tube amp..... not even classD!
post #39 of 130
Either support Singlepower, or don't. Buy Mikhail's products, or don't. It doesn't matter either way. If this is the way the man works, and he creates products that people still want to purchase, I don't see where the problem is.

With that being said, I've never opened up my SP Extreme. From what I've read though, the Extremes do have PCBs.
post #40 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
Well done amps or electronics in general are nice and tidy inside, look into it and im sure you will get an understanding that you dont have just yet. Look inside your Little-Dot, probably looks better than that rats nest in the pictures above.
Your example undermines your argument. The Little Dot, as tidy as it might look on the inside, does not sound nearly as good as a Singlepower. If you have a Singlepower you want to trade for a Little Dot, let me know.
post #41 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimus View Post
Your example undermines your argument. The Little Dot, as tidy as it might look on the inside, does not sound nearly as good as a Singlepower. If you have a Singlepower you want to trade for a Little Dot, let me know.
LOL...me too. I love my little $300 amp, but I'll trade up at 10X the return, ugly inside or not.
post #42 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
If a 300 dollar amp from China can have neat wiring then a multi thousand dollar amp from the US must be built well. Justin and Ray dont seem to have all these problems. Your logic undermines your point.
i disagree with this.

it is more economical for them to build a simple clean design with all right angles than one with parts that do nest to the advantage of shorter signal paths, and better ground techniques.

justin and ray also dont have the problems associated with offering anything but what they stock on the shelf. Try to get a raptor with black-gate output caps or teflon interstage caps.
post #43 of 130
Mitch - you're right, a lot of the Tektronix stuff is neater than this.

I think part of the appearance problem is that there are banks of caps inside a chassis probably not designed for as many.

The point that's being missed is that straight wires and 90 degree bends do not necessarily equal good sound or construction. You can have both, but it takes a lot more planning and casing cost that does not pay off in performance, durability or serviceability. It might take an extra 5 minutes to get a cap out and replace it. Who cares?

The only concern I have is that the extra caps might impede air flow, depending on ventilation. If the interior temperature goes up because it's crowded, that's not good.
post #44 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
I know he has built some beautiful stuff but those internal pictures are shocking. Its not like he is cranking them out too fast. Its shoddy work for the same reason they arent getting out the door. Its a hobby for him and it has caught up with him. I mean is he a perfectionist or not?
did you look at his PCB's?

Since you are saying the same thing several times in a row, what reference do you have to call his work shoddy? please compare to another p2p design. no printed circuit boards. when doing this please reference the compromises that are made in both layouts.
post #45 of 130
I know what point to point means and I think uncle erik already mentioned one of the drawbacks to wiring like that. I also know you have seen the internal shots of a Woo amp and that would be an example of good wiring. I know it can function like that but like I said before, that is way to much money and time for rushed work like that. If you drop the fanboy stuff then it is easy to see that workmanship is not up to the standards set by his pricing and wait times. IMO elite products should be elite inside and out.
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