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post #16 of 130
I'd hold judgment until you are able to hear it. It's the sound that determines the product. This is what happens when a maxxed out design gets put in a standard case. I know professional builders would be hesitant to put their names on such a nest, but there may be no option for what's ordered.
post #17 of 130
WOW that is probably the worst point to point wiring I've seen..
post #18 of 130
I don't have a problem with it.

If you pop the hood on a vintage Tektronix oscilloscope, a high-end Collins communications receiver, commercial test equipment, or old televisions, all from the "golden age," they look like this inside. Keep in mind that this golden age gear is a few orders of magnitude more complex than any piece of audiophile kit. Amps just have an amp circuit. A TV or multiband radio will have a dozen or more stages. The engineers had to plan them very, very carefully. That this gear still works 50, 60, 70 years later should tell you something about the skills of the people who designed them.

When you go point-to-point, you want the shortest route between components. That trumps "neatness," which offers nothing but aesthetics. If you want to use longer runs for "neatness" and run wires parallel to each other, you bring up an entirely different set of problems to deal with. While it might not look neat, short runs that minimize parallel wires and components offers the best performance.

It meets my rules, too. It looks like every lead is insulated and that every component is fully supported on both leads and the big ones are tied down. The wires are color coded for what they do. Can't see many solder joints, but the ones in focus look healthy. The amp looks fine to me.

It's not hard to work on, either. I've been through dozens of tube radios more complex than that.
post #19 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post
I'd hold judgment until you are able to hear it. Looks like a rush job but it's the sound that determines the product. This is what happens when a maxxed out design gets put in a standard case. I know professional builders would be hesitant to put their names on such a nest, but there may be no option for what's ordered.

There is absolutely no excuse for that rats nest. If I paid thousands of dollars for for a piece of equipment and it looked like that, I would return it no matter how good it sounded. The builder has no pride in his work. It's sickening to see this BS.
post #20 of 130
Quote:
While it might not look neat, short runs that minimize parallel wires and components offers the best performance.
That is true. Bundled wire can be even worse layout method. The thing is there is no rhyme or reason to this that I can see. I can see current loops all over the place - that is definitely not what I expect in a very high end amplifier.
post #21 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakfastchef View Post
x2. I have seen some photos of the inside of a Cary that look at least this disheveled.
You guys are right, It does looks like my Cary 300SEI... with better Caps.

That must mean that it will sound great. - cause this one does.





I must admit I am not a big fan of this type of build quality. You can follow what is going on if you take your time. But there is so much interaction with the signal that it can't be the best way of doing it. I remember seeing some older P2P work of Jack Woo and it was very clean.

Maybe it a chaos theory of amp making. Confuse the signal path so much that it has no choice but to sound good.

Cheers,
post #22 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pars View Post
I disagree, particularly if you want a piece of equipment that will last 20+ years, and is serviceable. Which something like this should. This is a mess. Who cares about the boutique components thrown in haphazardly...
Well, you <snip>'ed out the part of my post where I agree with you, so I'm not sure what to say really. All I was trying to convey is that sound quality and electrical design are more important to me [most audiophiles I would think] than neatness and mechanical design.

To agree with you further, my amp was seriously damaged in the trip to the florida meet. Most of this damage could have been avoided if the thing had been designed properly to begin with. It still works though and sounds great... though I'm fully aware that is mostly due to luck.

EDIT: As a disclaimer, for those who don't follow what amps everyone has at a given time, my amp is not from Singlepower.
post #23 of 130
I like simple designs so if it breaks i can fix it myself.
If something happens to Mikail, who would fix it?
Which is why i worry about amps that use specially made batteries, and hard to get parts.
If it breaks, youre screwed.
I have an old carver reciever id like to try to get repaired.
My fear is that they wont have the IC chips to fix it.
I hope the parts in these expensive amps are easy to replace.
post #24 of 130
"Why do I have a distinct feeling of deja-vu?"


"If you pop the hood on a vintage Tektronix oscilloscope, a high-end Collins communications receiver, commercial test equipment, or old televisions, all from the "golden age," they look like this inside."

I strongly disagree especially the Tektronix oscilloscope. I have one at home and it is a work of art inside. The level of workmanship is awe-inspiring. The level of workmanship is beyond belief inside.


Mitch
post #25 of 130
Nice caps!

On the other hand, Jesus, what a mess. Looks like C3PO when he got blasted in half, lol...

Messy wiring, flux all over the place, everything haphazard (except those banks of resisitors, they look cool)...no wonder it takes forever to get your amps back when he services them. It must take a few months just to figure out where the hell the problem lies.
post #26 of 130
Quote:
Looks like C3PO when he got blasted in half
awesome
post #27 of 130
PrimaLuna wiring

post #28 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drag0n View Post
I like simple designs so if it breaks i can fix it myself.
If something happens to Mikail, who would fix it?
Most people familiar with tube circuits can diagnose a fault in this amp in a few miniutes and have it fixed in an hour.
Quote:
Which is why i worry about amps that use specially made batteries, and hard to get parts.
what specially made parts? there is NOTHING in that amp that is not a standard production part. BG's are out of production, but should be good for a decent chunk of time. they can of course be replaced with whatever the new flavor of the decade is in 10 years when they dry up, same as any other big electrolytic.
Quote:
If it breaks, youre screwed.
not really.
Quote:
I have an old carver reciever id like to try to get repaired.
My fear is that they wont have the IC chips to fix it.
they probably dont. Congradulations for supporting the trend away from tubes. They could fix the tube circuit for you.
Quote:
I hope the parts in these expensive amps are easy to replace.
They are. With P2P wiring you can replace most parts in a very short time.
post #29 of 130
Would you like to buy my Eastsound CD player? It really looks pristine on the inside. The reason I know is that I have to open it up every six months to figure out why it's broken.
post #30 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drag0n View Post
If something happens to Mikail, who would fix it?
Which is why i worry about amps that use specially made batteries, and hard to get parts.
If it breaks, youre screwed.
If you're patient it is not hard to trace a point to point tube amp circuit. I see no reason that any capable DIY'er couldn't fix these amps if necissary.

EDIT: Oops, seems Ari beat me to it.
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