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**Buyer Beware!! Please read before buying a Singlepower Amp** - Page 2  

post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by immtbiker View Post
Having read your link, and now following the pattern that Singlepower has taken in the 2 years since your incident, I don't think that anything that was said in that thread, wasn't truthful or "pretty messy stuff".

Not compared to what has happened as of late.
You're kind of missing the point - there was a chance to nip this in the bud years ago before things got so bad. How? By allowing customer experiences to be aired; by not locking down threads. By disciplined moderators who wouldn't defend a company; who wouldn't become defensive (as you are now). Etc.

While it wasn't you, immtbiker, jpelg and elrodtom's defense of SinglePower was an enabling factor in them selling to more people who ended up getting screwed over which led to your sticky. It is part of the equation. It's an important lesson for the moderators to own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by immtbiker View Post
I feel like you are biting the hand that feeds you.
You really don't feed me. Nor anyone else. You're not the forum; the members are; they are the traffic the advertisers seek.

I'm out.
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebert View Post
You're kind of missing the point - there was a chance to nip this in the bud years ago before things got so bad. How? By allowing customer experiences to be aired; by not locking down threads. By disciplined moderators who wouldn't defend a company; who wouldn't become defensive (as you are now). Etc.

While it wasn't you, immtbiker, jpelg and elrodtom's defense of SinglePower was an enabling factor in them selling to more people who ended up getting screwed over which led to your sticky. It is part of the equation. It's an important lesson for the moderators to own.



You really don't feed me. Nor anyone else. You're not the forum; the members are; they are the traffic the advertisers seek.

I'm out.
Standing Ovation.
post #18 of 26
While I generally speaking agree with Leebert's points, I wouldn't stop at singling out some mods. While "some" mods have exhibited a censorious streak in SP threads, there have been ample consumers willing to swallow the Kool-Aid whole.

My own discomfort comes from the impression I got that a degree of censorship was being used in SP's regard that wouldn't have been applied to say, an equivalent Sony or Koss or even a Ray Samuels thread.

For myself, While I once strongly considered an SP product, I have since decided to go with a Woo offering.
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceClass View Post
My own discomfort comes from the impression I got that a degree of censorship was being used in SP's regard that wouldn't have been applied to say, an equivalent Sony or Koss or even a Ray Samuels thread.
I agree with Imtbiker, the SP thread got a little out of hand, and well off topic into the realm of individuals throwing insults (and I was certainly not innocent ) before it was edited and posts were deleted.

On the topic of posts being edited:
I remember a whole page of a thread dealing with problems with a specific amplifier being deleted. The post that started the saga was fairly objective although stating that there are as many problems as there are with any design in 1 post by a ghostwriter (the post was made by someone other than the author of the text, which was clearly quoted and indicated this) can create something of a stir. There was a rather hot post in the middle of the page questioning the knowledge of the people who posted it up, but by the builder of the amp.... The whole saga lasted an evening, and was deleted before morning.

In the realm of whose company is protected in any way here, SP is not them at all.
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebert View Post
You're kind of missing the point - there was a chance to nip this in the bud years ago before things got so bad. How? By allowing customer experiences to be aired; by not locking down threads. By disciplined moderators who wouldn't defend a company; who wouldn't become defensive (as you are now). Etc.

While it wasn't you, immtbiker, jpelg and elrodtom's defense of SinglePower was an enabling factor in them selling to more people who ended up getting screwed over which led to your sticky. It is part of the equation. It's an important lesson for the moderators to own.



You really don't feed me. Nor anyone else. You're not the forum; the members are; they are the traffic the advertisers seek.

I'm out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post
I agree with Imtbiker, the SP thread got a little out of hand, and well off topic into the realm of individuals throwing insults (and I was certainly not innocent ) before it was edited and posts were deleted.

On the topic of posts being edited:
I remember a whole page of a thread dealing with problems with a specific amplifier being deleted. The post that started the saga was fairly objective although stating that there are as many problems as there are with any design in 1 post by a ghostwriter (the post was made by someone other than the author of the text, which was clearly quoted and indicated this) can create something of a stir. There was a rather hot post in the middle of the page questioning the knowledge of the people who posted it up, but by the builder of the amp.... The whole saga lasted an evening, and was deleted before morning.

In the realm of whose company is protected in any way here, SP is not them at all.
Its not about protection, its about doing something before more damage is done. AudiophileChina.com ring any bells?
post #21 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
Standing Ovation.
olblueyez[/B]. It seems that the only posts that you make are non-constructive. Take a look back at your last 20 or so posts in the 2 Singlepower threads and see if you can see what I'm talking about. Yes, you were approached by Voltron and some of the Mods for your statements, but it seems that you enjoy adding fuel to the fire, and since you don't have a vested interested in getting an amp back or money back from Singlepower, everyone of your comments are provoking. I'm not saying this to be mean.
Just take a look at your recent posts, and evaluate why you are so negatively aggressive in you verbiage. If you think I'm wrong, then so be it. But, I feel that this is why you are receiving the feedback from others that you are getting.
This forum is one built for a hobby built on info sharing and generally having fun.
Perhaps we should start over with a clean slate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leebert View Post
You really don't feed me. Nor anyone else. You're not the forum; the members are; they are the traffic the advertisers seek.
leebert, when I said that you are biting the hand that feeds you, my intention was not a narcissistic one. What I meant, was that I started this thread to protect non-informed members from entering into a purchase that they otherwise might not know the history of (hence, "feeding you").
I felt I was getting sniped by some, even though my intention was to be informative and protective.
I feel what members sometimes don't realize, is that I (and other Mods) are here as members 90% of the time, just like you, and the other 10% of modding is to stop spamming and people from getting ripped off in the FS forums (something that members don't really see...the bigger picture), and aggressive or slanderous behavior towards or fellow members. It is a thankless job that we don't get paid for, but do, because we are genuinely interested in trying to have everyone come away from this forum with a good experience. Of course that's impossible in the real world. But we can try.

If you feel that some Mods have their own agenda and aren't acting accordingly, then drop Jude a PM.

I host meets every year (including the 1st National) and my only intention is that everyone here, who is not mean spirited, has a good time, find out helpful information that will help them when making decisions that involve small or large amounts of money, and be protective to members in need.
You have no idea how many PM's I receive each week from members who have been wronged or ripped off by other members, and spend large amounts of my personal time, trying to help them. This has nothing to do with advertisers or sponsors or manufacturers. Nothing whatsoever.
The first 4 years of Head-Fi were run at a loss with Jude using his own money out of his own pocket. If Head-Fi is now a successful business, well then it is deservedly so.
When I started threads about Singlepower and their business practices, I got chastised by many members who thought that I had something personal against Mikhail.
I now hope, with these 2 threads, those who thought that this was a personal vendetta, now see that my opinions and postings were valid. I have owned 2 of his amps and have nothing personal against him. But I have seen many abuses that I feel are wrong and spoke out, about them. If anyone still thinks that I am wrong for doing so, then I have a couple of good therapists I can refer them to .
Sometimes it's hard to see where a person is coming from, when posting on the internet, and I hope that this can show a different side of my actions. If members still think I'm being protective and guarding certain manufacturers and not others, then there's nothing more I can say to try and dispel that, other than this post.
post #22 of 26
Most of my posts were defensive ones because there was no moderation when it comes to Blubiss, Tom Hankins and Voltron following the rules of the forum. I even received PM's from people congratulating me for standing up for myself. The ironic part is the people who seem to complain don't offer different opinions than my own even when they are following the rules. My standing ovation was because these SinglePower problems are nothing new and in the past people who mentioned it were attacked the same way I was, and nothing was done about it. Another Ironic thing is these people who attacked me are currently having problems with SP in spite of the warning signs that go a few years back and that was were my comment about "The customers being the problem" came from. That is to say "Ordering from Mikhail is risky and there are known problems". I hate to see people treated this way but I am the bad guy and the people who perpetuate Mikhail's fiasco are victims of my posting? Why is it that I am the only one in the entire thread to be told "Don't post unless you have a problem with SP"? I think I have some valid points and every single time I mention this to a moderator I'm told "We don't have any agendas regarding SP". I understand you don't have any devious schemes to help SP, but what about protecting the members who are mis-treated by hostile people who chose to continue to do business with Mikhail? I continue to shake my head because I have been nothing but hostile towards Mikhail and he is stealing from people and I am some kind of bad guy. It makes no sense. The way I am treated by certain members in that thread you would think my name is Mikhail. Oh, and just for the record, I much rather have a normal conversation than arguing with a bunch of hostile, unreasonable people, and that is why I reported this behaviour and even told Blubiss to take it up with the moderators instead of airing his personal stuff in a public forum at one point. As for my last 20 posts, remove the defensive ones (Something I requested the mods do) and then see what is left. A clean slate is fine with me, I hold no grudges like some of the people in the SP thread. On a side note, I think your SP thread is great and needed to be done along time ago.
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebert View Post

Head-fi bears some culpability in promoting the cult-status of SP.
I just finished reading all of SP related problems as well as leebert's

That was a lot to read, but it was worth to do so.



I am very sad, finding myself agreeing with this and his other posts as well.
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnmnkh View Post
I am very sad, finding myself agreeing with this and his other posts as well.
Head-Fi bears no responsibility. It was obvious as early as 2003 that Mikhail was a dishonest businessperson -- I'm referring to the controversy about the shoddy, dangerous assembly of Singlepower's non-PCB amps and some of the false claims Mikhail made in relation to that controversy. But all this was out in the open in threads for people to search and find. People just chose not to believe the pictorial evidence. That's fine, it's their money. Anyone who tossed money at Mikhail after that (especially more than $5000!) should have known they were gambling with their money. Sometimes the gambles paid off (Mikhail's white cathode followers did sound good), at least until the amps broke and needed repair.
post #25 of 26
Enough of the petty bickering. A few of you have lost sight of the original focus of this thread and made it about you and defending what you view as a slight. I will not hesitate to start deleting non relevant posts. I have for the most part stayed away from these threads after being attacked during the 2003 postings that Wodgy speaks of. This post is not meant to start a new round of I am right you are wrong posts and if it does they will be deleted so do not waste your energy posting them.
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebert View Post
While it wasn't you, immtbiker, jpelg and elrodtom's defense of SinglePower was an enabling factor in them selling to more people who ended up getting screwed over which led to your sticky. It is part of the equation. It's an important lesson for the moderators to own.
You know, this is really remarkable. Now because a vendor can't keep up his end of the bargain, it's MY fault. I just don't even know what to say.

If you knew how much grief I'd taken for being ANTI SinglePower from certain members (and it's been EXTENSIVE and UNRELENTING since 2003!) for PERMITTING certain criticism and complaints to stand, you'd understand how I have to almost wonder if this is some kind of sick joke. I have to believe that some of those same members are having a good belly laugh at that one.

Remarkable.

We've allowed much discussion of a variety of issues with MANY vendors on this site, and we've done so for years. All we have ever asked is that those with a complaint bring it in a civil manner, and that those who are not interested parties (i.e. those who simply want to create an exploding ****-storm) keep out of it. Because some folks simply can't follow those simple rules, sometimes a thread gets closed and/or posts deleted. Don't blame the moderators when that happens...we're just trying to keep this place from degenerating into a Head-Fi version of Lord of the Flies.

In fact, I note with not a small degree of irony, that perhaps it's the fault of those who couldn't maintain proper decorum when issues came up that threads ended up locked and posts deleted. Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it.

As Wodgy correctly notes, it's not like a variety of issues with SinglePower haven't been discussed at length on this site since 2003. Issues with delivery/repair have also been discussed at length for a long time...it's not like lengthy turn-around time with SinglePower amps has been a secret until recently. How is it exactly that the word didn't get out? And what should we have done? Should we have deleted all the praise of SP amps out of some sense of duty to protect the membership at large? Should we have let every hacked-off troll who is only interested in making trouble have a soapbox? Tell me...I'd REALLY like to know.

So, I guess sometimes you just can't win. If we permit discussion of issues with a manufacturer at all, some members will accuse us of being toadys for a competing manufacturer. If we make any attempt to weed out those who are mostly just looking to cause trouble, other members will accuse us of protecting that manufacturer (and others still will call us fascits who dare to censor...but that's a whole other discussion ).

We moderators are not paid for the work we do. We do it because we appreciate this community, and want to give back some of what we get out of it. I suppose that this proves the old truism that no good deed goes unpunished.
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