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**Buyer Beware!! Please read before buying a Singlepower Amp**  

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Due to problems between Head-Fi members and and SinglePower over the last three years, please read these two threads before buying an amp from Singlepower.

This information is not intended to slander anyone, just to better enable our members to make a rational buying decision based on previous transactions.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/whe...ikhail-333677/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/mod...7/#post4489225
post #2 of 26
Wow....I hope everything works out for the members involved and those wishing for a SP product !!!

Peete.
post #3 of 26

I Applaud Your Stand

Aaron (immtbiker),

I applaud you and Head-fi on taking this very courageous and unfortunately necessary move. My sense is that this has not been easy for you to do. So in support of your courage and honesty, and in the hopes of making Head-fi an even better place, I need to break my silence and add confirmation to what has been said in the threads. (And feel free to move this post if this is not the right place for it.)

In August of 2007 I experienced many of the problems mentioned in the original thread, Where Is Singlepower, Where Is Mikhail. I was repeatedly told things that simply were not true. Three times, but especially the first one, involved significant inconsiderations and inconvenience.

Originally I had posted here specific details and examples of these inconsiderations. I have decided to edit them out as I want to keep this as positive as possible. My intention was not to rehash old issues, but simply to give concrete examples. But I am over it and I hope Mikhail is too. IME these incidents were not minor and were examples of what was talked about in the thread.

The first major incident occurred while I was at a regional meet where there were a quite a number of very experienced Head-fiers and Singlepower customers in attendance. That’s when I found out that broken promises and other untruths like bogus shipping tracking numbers were something that others, besides me, had experienced. But there was very little if any mention of these experiences on the public forums.

While the list may not be complete, I believe that Elephas (in the original thread) lays out a lot of dynamics that seem pretty accurate in my experience. I would have never have thought that the things I experienced would happen, but they did. I don’t believe that this was an anomaly unique to me.

This pattern of firmly promised delivery only to result in a no show happened 2 more times in the span of the next 2-3 weeks. After the first two, I let Mikhail smooth it over for my by throwing in significant free upgrades. So I have to take some responsibility for allowing my audio greed to get the better of my wisdom. Finally after the last time, in spite of really wanting the amp (not to mention approx 100 hour maybe more researching and planning the amp) I canceled my order.

I was firm in my cancellation. In fairness to Mikhail he promptly refunded the approx. $3500 I had in on deposit. I really appreciated that the money was mailed when and as promised. If the amp had been delivered in the same way, there would have been no issue.

At that time I decided to not go public with any posts about my experience. While not perfect in this area, I don’t like to speak badly about anyone. In spite of the disappointment I was experiencing, I did not feel vindictive (well, maybe a few thoughts) towards Mikhail or experience any need to get even, nor do I now. I naively hoped that the experience of having to refund my money would be wake up call enough for him to do his own corrections. My impression is that he has often been let “off the hook,” and that this has contributed to the patterns continuing.

This experience as well as some new business demands contributed to me being off Head-fi for about 9 months. I've slowly been coming back into Head-fi intermittantly. So it was with a lot of sadness that I read the original thread that started all of this. It looked like exactly the type of behavior I had experienced. The kinds of inconsiderations and untruths that had been shown to me, were still being shown to others.

For a number of experienced members in the "know" this information has been around for quite awhile. Because there is a level of customization available with Singlepower that is difficult to find elsewhere, some choose to order and reorder in spite of also having these things happen to them. (And I'm not saying that is every Singlepower customer as I simply don't know.) But to those folks who have been treated in ways that they shouldn't be, my opinion is that in your own way it is time to stand up. We all want the latest, greatest most bells and whistles amp we can get. But I want to be treated with common respect and courtesy, in the process. And I want to trust that what I am being told is true. And I can only be repeatedly mistreated if I allow it. .

Actually my concern has less been with the experienced members on Head-fi, but instead with the new folks who come in without the "insider" knowledge. Prior to these threads, they have had to find out the hard way (again I doubt this is every customer’s experience). Well the information is now out as public knowledge. I support that which is why I have posted here. What you choose to do with the information is now up to you.

To Mikhail, I only hope that these threads give you pause to reconsider your business practices. I don't hold any personal animosity towards you (otherwise I would have posted long ago and in a much more emotional way). I am actually rooting for you to use this experience to bring your customer service, firmly based upon respect and honesty, up to the level to match the quality that can be in your amps. If that happens, then we’ll all be the better for it.

Sincerely,

Laurence

PS. (added after the fact.) The greatest problems I have heard have involved those who, like me, ordered customized amps. My first Singlepower was a production model that I only added fairly simple upgrades (Blackgate caps and a pre amp out option). This amp was part of the original introductory production run and it was delivered within the promised time frame. My impressions from general reading on Head-fi is that there are less problems with the production run categories of amps, but I don't know this for sure. I add this just because I want to be as fair as possible. Your mileage may vary.
post #4 of 26
Everyone should read above
post #5 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldj325 View Post
Aaron (immtbiker),

I applaud you and Head-fi on taking this very courageous and unfortunately necessary move. My sense is that this has not been easy for you to do. So in support of your courage and honesty, and in the hopes of making Head-fi an even better place, I need to break my silence and add confirmation to what has been said in the threads. (And feel free to move this post if this is not the right place for it.)

In August of 2007 I experienced many of the problems mentioned in the original thread, Where Is Singlepower, Where Is Mikhail. I was repeatedly told things that simply were not true. Three times, but especially the first one, involved significant inconsiderations and inconvenience.

Originally I had posted here specific details and examples of these inconsiderations. I have decided to edit them out as I want to keep this as positive as possible. My intention was not to rehash old issues, but simply to give concrete examples. But I am over it and I hope Mikhail is too. IME these incidents were not minor and were examples of what was talked about in the thread.

The first major incident occurred while I was at a regional meet where there were a quite a number of very experienced Head-fiers and Singlepower customers in attendance. That’s when I found out that broken promises and other untruths like bogus shipping tracking numbers were something that others, besides me, had experienced. But there was very little if any mention of these experiences on the public forums.

While the list may not be complete, I believe that Elephas (in the original thread) lays out a lot of dynamics that seem pretty accurate in my experience. I would have never have thought that the things I experienced would happen, but they did. I don’t believe that this was an anomaly unique to me.

This pattern of firmly promised delivery only to result in a no show happened 2 more times in the span of the next 2-3 weeks. After the first two, I let Mikhail smooth it over for my by throwing in significant free upgrades. So I have to take some responsibility for allowing my audio greed to get the better of my wisdom. Finally after the last time, in spite of really wanting the amp (not to mention approx 100 hour maybe more researching and planning the amp) I canceled my order.

I was firm in my cancellation. In fairness to Mikhail he promptly refunded the approx. $3500 I had in on deposit. I really appreciated that the money was mailed when and as promised. If the amp had been delivered in the same way, there would have been no issue.

At that time I decided to not go public with any posts about my experience. While not perfect in this area, I don’t like to speak badly about anyone. In spite of the disappointment I was experiencing, I did not feel vindictive (well, maybe a few thoughts) towards Mikhail or experience any need to get even, nor do I now. I naively hoped that the experience of having to refund my money would be wake up call enough for him to do his own corrections. My impression is that he has often been let “off the hook,” and that this has contributed to the patterns continuing.

This experience as well as some new business demands contributed to me being off Head-fi for about 9 months. I've slowly been coming back into Head-fi intermittantly. So it was with a lot of sadness that I read the original thread that started all of this. It looked like exactly the type of behavior I had experienced. The kinds of inconsiderations and untruths that had been shown to me, were still being shown to others.

For a number of experienced members in the "know" this information has been around for quite awhile. Because there is a level of customization available with Singlepower that is difficult to find elsewhere, some choose to order and reorder in spite of also having these things happen to them. (And I'm not saying that is every Singlepower customer as I simply don't know.) But to those folks who have been treated in ways that they shouldn't be, my opinion is that in your own way it is time to stand up. We all want the latest, greatest most bells and whistles amp we can get. But I want to be treated with common respect and courtesy, in the process. And I want to trust that what I am being told is true. And I can only be repeatedly mistreated if I allow it. .

Actually my concern has less been with the experienced members on Head-fi, but instead with the new folks who come in without the "insider" knowledge. Prior to these threads, they have had to find out the hard way (again I doubt this is every customer’s experience). Well the information is now out as public knowledge. I support that which is why I have posted here. What you choose to do with the information is now up to you.

To Mikhail, I only hope that these threads give you pause to reconsider your business practices. I don't hold any personal animosity towards you (otherwise I would have posted long ago and in a much more emotional way). I am actually rooting for you to use this experience to bring your customer service, firmly based upon respect and honesty, up to the level to match the quality that can be in your amps. If that happens, then we’ll all be the better for it.

Sincerely,

Laurence
My sentiments exactly!
post #6 of 26
Mikhail needs to make some adjustments in his customer service practices, but these are really great amps. He offers a level of customization that is hard to find.

I think he should offer progress payment plans where customers pay at various points in the manufacturing of their order. Some of his models are VERY expensive. An average market rate on money is ~4.5%. If you order a SDS (which will probably take 6mo. to a year to complete), you could end up paying $400 or more extra for the amp.

One thing is for sure, all the complaining and hard feelings melt away once the amps are received. I ordered a pretty basic MPX3 SLAM and it took 3 times a long as I was originally quoted (1 months vs 10 days) but I am ecstatic now that I have it.

If you place an order over $2000, after reading this thread, ask if you can use progress payments to pay for the amp.
post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollie View Post
I think he should offer progress payment plans where customers pay at various points in the manufacturing of their order. Some of his models are VERY expensive. An average market rate on money is ~4.5%. If you order a SDS (which will probably take 6mo. to a year to complete), you could end up paying $400 or more extra for the amp.
He did that for me when I had him build me a supra. half up front, half 5 weeks before delivery.

Your comment on "lost money" because of not having it invested while waiting applies equally well to "lost money" for the not having it invested while owning the amp. New audio equipment is NOT an investment. With EXTRAORDINARILY few exceptions, nothing in audio beats the bank.

Assuming you just wanted to think about how much money you could have made if you did have the money in the bank until 3 days before the amp shipped your numbers dont add up. The return at 4.5%APY on $5000 (just a nice high number) is only $225. Considering that very few of these amps cost more than $3000 the "lost money" argument is really really weak compared to the fact that pretty much all new audio gear looses 10-20% for the simple fact that its been "used" for 6 months.
post #8 of 26

Old news

This issue is quite old. When I posted about SP's poor customer service in Mar '06, I was flamed, the thread was locked, and I was chastised by a head-fi moderator off line (and in the post).

Head-fi bears some culpability in promoting the cult-status of SP.

On an up-note, it does appear the SOA has advanced, with many attractive options. Looking forward, there's a lot to be happy about.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/sin...rouble-165790/
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebert View Post
This issue is quite old. When I posted about SP's poor customer service in Mar '06, I was flamed, the thread was locked, and I was chastised by a head-fi moderator off line (and in the post).

Head-fi bears some culpability in promoting the cult-status of SP.

On an up-note, it does appear the SOA has advanced, with many attractive options. Looking forward, there's a lot to be happy about.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/sin...rouble-165790/
I still get the same treatment today. It seems that some people at HF think that exacerbating the situation is productive some how.
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebert View Post
Head-fi bears some culpability in promoting the cult-status of SP.
I very reluctantly have to agree with that statement.
post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebert View Post
This issue is quite old. When I posted about SP's poor customer service in Mar '06, I was flamed, the thread was locked, and I was chastised by a head-fi moderator off line (and in the post).

Head-fi bears some culpability in promoting the cult-status of SP.
As a mod, who started this this thread, and one who sees the bigger picture, i have to adamantly disagree with this statement.
Head-Fi has done nothing to protect any of it's vendors, especially one's who have not contributed a dime to Head-Fi.

If you see deleted posts, they are deleted because they have broken the few of the simple rules that Head-Fi uses so that this forum doesn't run amuck.
There has been no favoritism shown to any vendors, sponsors or not, and the mods discuss almost every post that is deleted so that it is not a one man show.
There is no use of executive privileges here. If you feel otherwise, can you PM me and point out examples?

And please don't stereotype all mods into one category. We are humans that make mistakes, but everything is generally done for the good of the members.

olblueyez, I have seen many of your posts in the SP threads deleted because 1, you have no vested interested in SP amps or money owed to you, and 2, you are a member who likes to add gasoline to a fire just to see it burn more than it's already burning.

If you guys think there is a conspiracy theory, I assure you that there's not.
post #12 of 26
A pity that Singlepower as a company is going down due to poor customer service. Their amps when they work make beautiful music. Maybe I should sell my heavily modded MPX3.
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by immtbiker View Post
As a mod, who started this this thread, and one who sees the bigger picture, i have to adamantly disagree with this statement.
Head-Fi has done nothing to protect any of it's vendors, especially one's who have not contributed a dime to Head-Fi.

If you see deleted posts, they are deleted because they have broken the few of the simple rules that Head-Fi uses so that this forum doesn't run amuck.
There has been no favoritism shown to any vendors, sponsors or not, and the mods discuss almost every post that is deleted so that it is not a one man show.
There is no use of executive privileges here. If you feel otherwise, can you PM me and point out examples?

And please don't stereotype all mods into one category. We are humans that make mistakes, but everything is generally done for the good of the members.

olblueyez, I have seen many of your posts in the SP threads deleted because 1, you have no vested interested in SP amps or money owed to you, and 2, you are a member who likes to add gasoline to a fire just to see it burn more than it's already burning.

If you guys think there is a conspiracy theory, I assure you that there's not.
I was attacked and I asked that those posts be deleted as well as my replies, so I dont have any idea what you are talking about when you say my posts were deleted. I was merely told not to post in that thread anymore since I dont have a SP amp, something im sure everyone in that thread has.
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by immtbiker View Post
Head-Fi has done nothing to protect any of it's vendors, especially one's who have not contributed a dime to Head-Fi.
Read the thread I linked too - jpelg in particular. And off-line comments. Pretty messy stuff, and displaying very poor judgement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by immtbiker View Post
If you guys think there is a conspiracy theory, I assure you that there's not.
Never stated or implied such a thing. Nor did I imply all moderators were complicit. No need to sweep the criticism into a corner - there's a lot for the Forum to learn from this unfortunate experience.
post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
Having read your link, and now following the pattern that Singlepower has taken in the 2 years since your incident, I don't think that anything that was said in that thread, wasn't truthful or "pretty messy stuff".

Not compared to what has happened as of late.

Head-Fi has not, in any way validated Mikhail's poor business practices or deceptive actions.
You only waited an extra week and 1/2. What about all of the members who have been waiting years?
Either way, the moderators have never defended Mikhail's or Xin's actions. Hence the creation of this thread Sticky, so others won't fall into the same pit that you were lucky enough to get out of, rather quickly, in comparison to others.

Certainly, the MODS are not protecting any MOT nor promoting any MOT, which is what you were implying.
My Sticky was to protect others and make them aware of getting involved in a less then desirable situation. I feel like you are biting the hand that feeds you.
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