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post #3046 of 3420
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

 

700

 

Pics.....of RECORDS.......evil_smiley.gif

hopefully records you dont like much if you are storing them on their side...

post #3047 of 3420

The ones on their sides are all polkas......inherited.....

post #3048 of 3420
An album is a collection of music, and can be released on vinyl, optical disc, tape, download etc.
post #3049 of 3420
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinharding View Post

 

235 watts for 96 db per channel?! Why? (Are those KT88 or 66 btw?)  I'm running Jensen P15LL with Altec 802b Horns with a combined efficiency of 98 db and only using about 10 watts at max and can certainly drive them past ear bleeding volumes.  Had a vintage pair of Tannoy Super Reds before the Jensens, so I definitely share your appreciation of those speakers.  Those are absolutely gorgeous cabinets!!!!

 

Absolutely beautiful system. I can only imagine how great it sound 

post #3050 of 3420
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinharding View Post

 

235 watts for 96 db per channel?! Why? (Are those KT88 or 66 btw?)  I'm running Jensen P15LL with Altec 802b Horns with a combined efficiency of 98 db and only using about 10 watts at max and can certainly drive them past ear bleeding volumes.  Had a vintage pair of Tannoy Super Reds before the Jensens, so I definitely share your appreciation of those speakers.  Those are absolutely gorgeous cabinets!!!!

 

Wattage doesn't go as far as you may think. I seriously doubt anyone ever uses more than 1 watt on speakers that are more than 85 db efficient. 96 db is close to a constant jackhammer, 85 over a long period will give you permanent hearing damage.

 

Sometimes a good design can output heaps of power while being really good at low wattage as well eg. ncore.

post #3051 of 3420

Ei karrumbah! I'm counting $18 large, ex SR-009.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

1000

 

YES.wav

 

That is all.

post #3052 of 3420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamerzhell View Post

 

Wattage doesn't go as far as you may think. I seriously doubt anyone ever uses more than 1 watt on speakers that are more than 85 db efficient. 96 db is close to a constant jackhammer, 85 over a long period will give you permanent hearing damage.

 

Sometimes a good design can output heaps of power while being really good at low wattage as well eg. ncore.


What about taking the listening distance into consideration, transients, etc... 

post #3053 of 3420
18.7k in that pic. Retail of course. Plus another 10k+ in headphones.

I hate talking about prices but this hobby is evil. I feel like I should record a PSA for my 10,000th post. Lol.
post #3054 of 3420
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

Mmmm...Lateralus. I love that picture disc. I have it too. Still trying to hunt down a legit copy of Aenima under 300 bucks.

 

I emailed my mom to have her check if I still have Aenima in a box at home. Haven't been there for a few years and there have been more than a few garage sales. If I have it still, I'll drop a PM with a great price. Still sealed as I never even owned a turntable.
post #3055 of 3420

PLEASE GOD YES.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tool462 View Post

 

I emailed my mom to have her check if I still have Aenima in a box at home. Haven't been there for a few years and there have been more than a few garage sales.If I have it still, I'll drop a PM with a great price. Still sealed as I never even owned a turntable.
post #3056 of 3420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face View Post


What about taking the listening distance into consideration, transients, etc... 

 

Hadn't thought about that actually... I still highly doubt you would use more than 1 watt.

 

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html is giving me 85 db at 15 ft not considering positioning. (using 96 db efficiency)

 

85 db efficiency gets about 75 db at 15 ft which is quite loud but not unfeasible for some people here to listen to.

post #3057 of 3420
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

18.7k in that pic. Retail of course. Plus another 10k+ in headphones.
I hate talking about prices but this hobby is evil. I feel like I should record a PSA for my 10,000th post. Lol.

It is still a lot cheaper than the big speaker rigs. You could buy a LG for the price of their cables!
post #3058 of 3420

http://www.head-fi.org/t/634762/3-musketeer-mini-meet-impressions-11-3-12-austin-texas

 

For those of you wanting impressions. The other guys should be adding their impressions soon as well.

post #3059 of 3420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamerzhell View Post

 

Hadn't thought about that actually... I still highly doubt you would use more than 1 watt.

 

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html is giving me 85 db at 15 ft not considering positioning. (using 96 db efficiency)

 

85 db efficiency gets about 75 db at 15 ft which is quite loud but not unfeasible for some people here to listen to.

 

Transients are 1 big reason heaps of power might be required. Not nearly so much with 96+ dB/Watt speakers, but speakers which hit that number honestly (e.g. not taking room gain into account, which would be doubled by that online calculator) are rare, and you'd still need well above 1 watt to make "lifelike" levels for music with a healthy crest factor (overly compressed/brickwall'd recordings, e.g. RHCP, need not apply). A continuous/sustained 106dB level is going to be too damn loud for most folks. However, 106dB peaks on music with a 20-30dB crest factor  (i.e. 75dB-85dB average levels) is quite enjoyable, and some would argue it's the proper way to listen to many fine classical recordings (or even higher). Many amps only supply an extra 3dB or so of power for peaks (again, if they're honest) vs. their continuous power rating. So the crest level -- not the continuous level -- is almost always going to be the limiting factor, and thus what we should use in these calculations (which btw are just "good" estimates). So let's do those calculations again with a target of 106dB peaks:

 

1 Watt gives us 96dB @ 1m. Let's assume only 3 meters distance:
=> 6 * log2(1m/3m) = -9.5 dB (loss of almost 10 dB)

=> +6dB for stereo speakers

=> +3dB for estimated room gain

Add them up: now we've about broken even, at 95.5dB for our 1 Watt. We'll need to add power (over 1 Watt) to hit 106dB peaks:

106dB - 95.5dB = 10.5dB

10.5dB = 10 * log10(P/1Watt), where P is the power (in Watts) we're solving for:

P = 11.2 Watts (peak)

 

So we'd need an amp that can provide 11 Watts peak in this situation (btw the requirement would be a stout 87 Watts if our speakers were only an ordinary 87dB/Watt!). That's a lot more than 1 Watt, but still not much. What about 112dB peaks (still well below the levels of some venues)? That would require 44 Watts (96dB speakers) or 348 Watts (87dB speakers).

 

Now here's where audiophile madness comes into play: many stereo amps -- especially tube amps or single-ended amps -- rise in distortion up to their rated power. Also, speakers are not a purely resistive load, and can be much more demanding on an amp than their nominal impedance would indicate. The more headroom you have, the lower your distortion is likely to be -- though obviously this yields reduced gains as your power requirements become so minimal that the noise floor begins to dominate. How much headroom you decide you'll need is a very subjective call -- but this being the summit-fi forum, I assume we'll have plenty of "enough is never enough" kind of guys/gals around here. A modest 10dB of headroom would require 110 Watts of peak power capability in our example (440 Watts for 112dB peaks), or 870 Watts (3,480 Watts for 112dB peaks) with an 87dB/Watt speaker! These multiply out very quickly...

 

Either way: yes, 250 Watts is a LOT for a 96dB/Watt speaker. A stout 60 Watt/ch amp would be unlikely to ever clip audibly in my situation (and you DO want to avoid clipping, even by accident, and even with tube amps), even with my "let's push the volume" tendencies. I'm a big fan of efficient speakers -- I think it's impossible to get back everything by just bludgeoning the speakers with brute power, once you give up efficiency (e.g. heat dissipation issues) -- and just happened to have really powerful tube amps at the time I upgraded speakers. I'd consider less powerful tube amps in the future (the Atmasphere 60 Watt OTL monos look niiice), but for now it sounds superb so I'll ride out this rare streak of contentedness.


Edited by mulveling - 11/4/12 at 10:41am
post #3060 of 3420

Room gain is only at lower frequencies.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulveling View Post

 

Transients are 1 big reason heaps of power might be required. Not nearly so much with 96+ dB/Watt speakers, but speakers which hit that number honestly (e.g. not taking room gain into account, which would be doubled by that online calculator) are rare, and you'd still need well above 1 watt to make "lifelike" levels for music with a healthy crest factor (overly compressed/brickwall'd recordings, e.g. RHCP, need not apply). A continuous/sustained 106dB level is going to be too damn loud for most folks. However, 106dB peaks on music with a 20-30dB crest factor  (i.e. 75dB-85dB average levels) is quite enjoyable, and some would argue it's the proper way to listen to many fine classical recordings (or even higher). Many amps only supply an extra 3dB or so of power for peaks (again, if they're honest) vs. their continuous power rating. So the crest level -- not the continuous level -- is almost always going to be the limiting factor, and thus what we should use in these calculations (which btw are just "good" estimates). So let's do those calculations again with a target of 106dB peaks:

 

1 Watt gives us 96dB @ 1m. Let's assume only 3 meters distance:
=> 6 * log2(1m/3m) = -9.5 dB (loss of almost 10 dB)

=> +6dB for stereo speakers

=> +3dB for estimated room gain

Add them up: now we've about broken even, at 95.5dB for our 1 Watt. We'll need to add power (over 1 Watt) to hit 106dB peaks:

106dB - 95.5dB = 10.5dB

10.5dB = 10 * log10(P/1Watt), where P is the power (in Watts) we're solving for:

P = 11.2 Watts (peak)

 

So we'd need an amp that can provide 11 Watts peak in this situation (btw the requirement would be a stout 87 Watts if our speakers were only an ordinary 87dB/Watt!). That's a lot more than 1 Watt, but still not much. What about 112dB peaks (still well below the levels of some venues)? That would require 44 Watts (96dB speakers) or 348 Watts (87dB speakers).

 

Now here's where audiophile madness comes into play: many stereo amps -- especially tube amps or single-ended amps -- rise in distortion up to their rated power. Also, speakers are not a purely resistive load, and can be much more demanding on an amp than their nominal impedance would indicate. The more headroom you have, the lower your distortion is likely to be -- though obviously this yields reduced gains as your power requirements become so minimal that the noise floor begins to dominate. How much headroom you decide you'll need is a very subjective call -- but this being the summit-fi forum, I assume we'll have plenty of "enough is never enough" kind of guys/gals around here. A modest 10dB of headroom would require 110 Watts of peak power capability in our example (440 Watts for 112dB peaks), or 870 Watts (3,480 Watts for 112dB peaks) with an 87dB/Watt speaker! These multiply out very quickly...

 

Either way: yes, 250 Watts is a LOT for a 96dB/Watt speaker. A stout 60 Watt/ch amp would be unlikely to ever clip audibly in my situation (and you DO want to avoid clipping, even by accident, and even with tube amps), even with my "let's push the volume" tendencies. I'm a big fan of efficient speakers -- I think it's impossible to get back everything by just bludgeoning the speakers with brute power, once you give up efficiency (e.g. heat dissipation issues) -- and just happened to have really powerful tube amps at the time I upgraded speakers. I'd consider less powerful tube amps in the future (the Atmasphere 60 Watt OTL monos look niiice), but for now it sounds superb so I'll ride out this rare streak of contentedness.

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