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The Sound Signature Of Silver - Page 4

post #46 of 64
8/1/08 at 9:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean H View Post
If you can't hear any difference between cables then your hearing doesn't allow you to hear it. And that's fine, it's nothing to be bitter about.
Ability to hear has nothing to do with it. If it was audible, it would be clearly measurable. The impression of silver sounding "white" is the clearest example I can think of for magical thinking affecting perception.

See ya
Steve
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post #47 of 64
8/14/08 at 12:32am
Ha ha, Steve, Steve. Do you honestly believe that the thousands and thousands of people who spend a lot of money on cables are all just "thinking" they are hearing differences? Like a bunch of foolish mind-numbed boobs?
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post #48 of 64
8/14/08 at 12:39am
Steve believes nothing he can't prove without hard facts measured by men of science, lol...
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post #49 of 64
8/14/08 at 12:50am
Due to real-time timing constraints, it is possible for even good digital cables to transmit a less-than-perfect bitstream. Evey professional I have talked to in digital audio agrees with this -- you don't get a perfect bitstream, maybe ever, unless you have re-transmission and a buffer, as some of the new ethernet or WiFi transmission systems do. But from CD transport to DAC on a 75-ohm digital cable, there are probably errors. However none of them are audible in most cases. In theory they could be, but unlikely in practice. From a PC to a USB DAC with a cheap USB cable that is out of spec (no name $1 cables), audible distortion is possible.

With analog all bets are off. I took a careful blind test of a silver IC vs a copper IC and I could tell the difference every time. I guessed wrong which was which, so that says something ... but they did not sound identical, no way.
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post #50 of 64
8/14/08 at 1:06am
I just switched from a solid core silver digital coax to the Tributaries one in my sig (stranded silver plate copper), and it may be due to other factors like the shielding, connectors, true 75 ohm impedance or whatever, but I like them better. I can't really speak as to the "sound" of them, but there's more weight and detail with the Tribs.

Speaking of buffers, wavoman, I'm using these Tribs between my CDP and a Monarchy DIP, and from there to my DAC, and I'm really happy with the whole combo. The DIP reclocks and boosts the output signal feeding the DAC, and there's been a big improvement in the overall sound character - more detail, heft, and imaging. Really happy with it overall now.

With an analog IC, I think there are a lot of factors besides conductor material that play into the sound of them - build, shielding, geometry, connectors, etc. I've tried both well shielded but fairly cheap Monster copper ICs (and others) and the ones I'm using now (Signal Cable Silver Resolution with Eichmann plugs), and the Monsters had a more muddy, smeary sound to them...not like it was REALLY bad, just not as nice as the silver. THe silver seems more resolving and detailed, like more of the music is making it to the amp. IMO, a lot of the "brightness" attributed to silver is due to the well defined higher frequencies...there's better transmission, but like I said, there's a lot of factors in cable design that can effect that.
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post #51 of 64
8/14/08 at 1:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Monkey View Post
I'm using these Tribs between my CDP and a Monarchy DIP, and from there to my DAC, and I'm really happy with the whole combo. The DIP reclocks and boosts the output signal feeding the DAC, and there's been a big improvement in the overall sound character - more detail, heft, and imaging. Really happy with it overall now.
Thanks I'm gonna check it out ... getting a new CDP and it's time for digial cables and such.
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post #52 of 64
8/14/08 at 1:32am
I started a thread a while on silver vs copper digital interconnects - as mentioned numerous times, with 0's and 1's, they should sound the same - as long as the connectors, impedance and cable length are constant.

However, they do not sound the same, as started by the OP. which one sounds better is subjective. But it proves (although not scientifically) that there is a definitely difference
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post #53 of 64
8/14/08 at 1:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavoman View Post
Thanks I'm gonna check it out ... getting a new CDP and it's time for digial cables and such.
Check out Audio Advisor for a fat deal on the Trib cables...they retailed at $330 for a set (they are component video cables), but are 94% off, and almost gone @ $29.99.
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post #54 of 64
8/15/08 at 1:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Monkey View Post
Check out Audio Advisor for a fat deal on the Trib cables...they retailed at $330 for a set (they are component video cables), but are 94% off, and almost gone @ $29.99.
Wow, got 'em! This is great. I assume the idea is that video cables are 75 ohms, so they are identical to digital audio except for marketing hype.
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post #55 of 64
8/15/08 at 2:45am
Component video cables have to be true 75 ohm coax due to the extremely high bandwidth requirements to carry video signals, and they also need to be well shielded from interference, so they are applicable for a digital cable, yeah. Conversely, not just any RCA interconnect will work properly if used as a component video cable. Go to the Tributaries site, and read their FAQ...there's some really good info there. I think you'll be happy with these. I've tried a lot of different cables for digital coax (copper braid,solid copper, solid silver, etc.), and these have definitely given me the best bang for the buck. Original retail, you're looking at $110 each for them, so at $10 a piece, you can't go wrong. Sure, you can spend insane amounts more for others, but unless you're putting them in an elite system, it would be a waste.
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post #56 of 64
8/16/08 at 2:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Monkey View Post
at $10 a piece, you can't go wrong. Sure, you can spend insane amounts more for others, but unless you're putting them in an elite system, it would be a waste.
Thanks again, bought 6.
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post #57 of 64
8/17/08 at 3:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riordan View Post
my take on this (and related topics): a closer look at what is meant by "i hear".

using silver instead of copper in an audio cable doesn't affect the signal it transports. BUT...

if you "know" (aka believe you know) that silver cable affects sound in this or that way, you could very well perceive that kind of change - not in your ears, but in your brain, which is where you really hear.

there's a difference between the objective signal that reaches our ears (usually not audibly affected by a cable's structure) and the subjective impression which can quite literally become "coloured".

in that way, silver cables CAN actually alter the sound - for that person! - if that is what he/she expects them to do. maybe not the cheapest way to reach aural bliss, but such statements can't objectively be disputed - because they would not be about physics, but about (the fallacy/wonderfully adaptive powers of) human perception.

now what are we REALLY talking about in all those threads?
Quote:
Originally Posted by meat01 View Post
Silver doesn't have a sound. It transfers electrons from one component to another. It may be ~7% more conductive than copper, but that does not contribute to a change in sound quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
All wires that are properly constructed are neutral and have a full range sound. No wire has life and emotion. If that's what you're looking for, I'd suggest a dog.

See ya
Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD1032 View Post
I don't believe any of this for a second. At the gauges and lengths we're talking about, silver and copper cannot make a distance in resistance, so therefore the sound cannot possibly change unless people are imagining that it is changing or listening differently.
I get so mad about this type of nonsense. I have measured cable effects with pink noise and it's not hard to show frequency response differences between cables.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/my...cables-153222/

You guys need to try measuring things before you make such claims.

I have recently done a comparison with silver cables which I have been holding off on in order to get more data. As I sit here I can't find my notes but the differences were somewhat more pronounced than what I reported earlier between 2 copper cables.

I do not think that my technique is the final word on this topic because I suspect that there are other characteristics of sound that are as, or more important than frequency response.
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post #58 of 64
8/17/08 at 3:55am
I'd like to see that when you get a chance Ed...if you don't feel like posting it due to the naysayers, feel free to shoot me a PM.
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post #59 of 64
8/17/08 at 4:23am
Quote:
You guys need to try measuring things before you make such claims.
measuring does not always equal an audible difference in sound.
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post #60 of 64
8/17/08 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
I get so mad about this type of nonsense. I have measured cable effects with pink noise and it's not hard to show frequency response differences between cables.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/my...cables-153222/

You guys need to try measuring things before you make such claims.

I have recently done a comparison with silver cables which I have been holding off on in order to get more data. As I sit here I can't find my notes but the differences were somewhat more pronounced than what I reported earlier between 2 copper cables.

I do not think that my technique is the final word on this topic because I suspect that there are other characteristics of sound that are as, or more important than frequency response.
I'm not sure anyone here is claiming that cables all measure the same. You'd have to be pretty silly to claim that.
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