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Many AV Receivers/Stereo Integrated amps do NOT use opamp powered headphone jacks - Page 13

post #181 of 221
So are headphones with a low impedance (Denon, Grado) less likely to perform well when powered by an integrated amp?

Thanks for this thread.
post #182 of 221
I switch between the Compass and headphone jack on my Kenwood. There is a difference and Compass wins, it's just quieter and cleaner sound. But yeah, the headphone out on the Kenwood is not horrible or bad, it's just not as good. So I would agree a dedicated headphone amp is not a requirement.
post #183 of 221
Wow what a thread, I'm more confused than ever .. I'm building a PC that I'll be using HP with instead of speakers, I'm also putting together a HT the center of which'll be an AV receiver and a laptop, all from scratch.

The challenge being getting headphones to sound good with both PC and HT. I thought I could do it thanks to the internet but it seems noone can agree on anything, review sites and AV forums don't give reliable info on the jack section of receivers so I'll have to pick one at random and hope for the best, I wanted to get maybe the Denon D2000 phones but they're low impedence which I thought was a good thing if you don't have dedicated amp but from this thread it seems higher impedence phones are better choices with AVR (assuming you got one with a good jack).. I now understand why HIFI market is small
post #184 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiComm4 View Post
So are headphones with a low impedance (Denon, Grado) less likely to perform well when powered by an integrated amp?

Thanks for this thread.
Based on my 5-25 ohm DT48, no. I was worried. I do have a high mid range Yamaha. No hissing or noise unless it's in the recording. For the most part everything is pitch black.
post #185 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiddu View Post
The challenge being getting headphones to sound good with both PC and HT. I thought I could do it thanks to the internet but it seems noone can agree on anything, review sites and AV forums don't give reliable info on the jack section of receivers so I'll have to pick one at random and hope for the best, I wanted to get maybe the Denon D2000 phones but they're low impedence which I thought was a good thing if you don't have dedicated amp but from this thread it seems higher impedence phones are better choices with AVR (assuming you got one with a good jack).. I now understand why HIFI market is small
jiddu, it's true that higher impedance phones are less likely to suffer any possible frequency variations due to impedance loading; my Senn HD650 seems to sound about the same--good--out of the jack of any well-designed amp. However, there's no point buying a high impedance phone you don't like just to get one that's tolerant of loading. First you need to pick something you like the sound of. As for AV receivers, the Marantz models seem to me about the safest choices from a hi-fi point of view.
post #186 of 221
Yes. Low impedance phones are more likely to be adversely affected by a high impedance headphone output, but most phones are optimized for the standard of 120 ohms, and most headphone jacks are pretty close to that standard as well.

Look at this logically. Whether using resistors or op amps, the headphone jack uses the preamp, wiring, etc, of the rest of the component. The HP jack is resistors, or op amp, and a headphone jack. Why would a good company, with a reputation to uphold, blow it on a couple of lousy-sounding parts when the good ones are so cheap (check a couple of op-amp rolling threads for reference). Why would headphone manufacturers design products optimized for a tiny fraction of the marketplace? It just doesn't make any sense. It is much more likely that the "cheap afterthought HP jack" story, like the now debunked notion that most modern receivers/integrateds use op amp HP circuits, is an urban myth of a community reluctant to believe that their neighbor's receiver could be anything but grossly inferior to the gear they've put so much money and thought into. Don't take their word for it or mine. Plug your best phones in and listen.

Tim
post #187 of 221
My old Sony DSR-D511 (an old prologic receiver) has a very strange relationship with my Goldring NS1000s. The Goldrings are dual impedance - 300 ohm in active noise cancellation mode and 100 ohm in passive mode. In active mode they sound fantastic with superb clarity and control. In passive mode there's an incredible difference. The bass becomes muddy and overpowering while the trebles and mids become not so much veiled as distant and foggy. Even my FiiO e5 does a much better job.

Any idea why that might be? I think it may the DSR- D511 doesn't supply enough current. I have no idea what the actual circuit is like or whether it's resistor or opamp based. It seems to do OK with most of my other headphones, which are generally lower impedance.
post #188 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ear8dmg View Post
My old Sony DSR-D511 (an old prologic receiver) has a very strange relationship with my Goldring NS1000s. The Goldrings are dual impedance - 300 ohm in active noise cancellation mode and 100 ohm in passive mode. In active mode they sound fantastic with superb clarity and control. In passive mode there's an incredible difference. The bass becomes muddy and overpowering while the trebles and mids become not so much veiled as distant and foggy. Even my FiiO e5 does a much better job.

Any idea why that might be? I think it may the DSR- D511 doesn't supply enough current. I have no idea what the actual circuit is like or whether it's resistor or opamp based. It seems to do OK with most of my other headphones, which are generally lower impedance.
Nope. No idea. Though that's the first time I've ever heard of active, noise-cancelling circuitry making headphones sound better.

P
post #189 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk View Post
Nope. No idea. Though that's the first time I've ever heard of active, noise-cancelling circuitry making headphones sound better.

P
I don't think it's the active noise cancelling that makes them sound better (it does introduce hiss that isn't there in passive mode). I think it's that the Sony Amp is just incapable of driving them effectively in passive mode.

If I understand correctly, noise cancellation requires some sort of built-in amplification circuitry that only operates in active mode. Hence in active mode, the NS1000s may be 'self amping'. As long as you pair them with an amp that's better than the 'onboard' amp, they will sound better in passive mode.
post #190 of 221
I've just hooked up my HD650s to my Marantz SR4200 and ignoring the annoying buzzing and interference it's got amazing power!
post #191 of 221
Buzzing and interference doesn't sound too good to me.
post #192 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by adsmithy View Post
I've just hooked up my HD650s to my Marantz SR4200 and ignoring the annoying buzzing and interference it's got amazing power!
Better clarify the buzzing and interference thing. We're all confused.
post #193 of 221
Re. Buzzing
My amps headphone out is definately faulty so I won't be using that again!

Luckily my parents have an SR4300 which works perfectly. I'm not very good at describing sound, it has plenty of power but sounds "thin/pinched".
post #194 of 221
Are you saying the SR4300 sounds different to the SR4200? That the latter has "amazing" power and the former sounds 'thin and pinched'? Because frankly I'd find that hard to believe.
post #195 of 221
Afaik my Marantz PM8003 have enough power to drive the HD800 and any opther headphone to hell...
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