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Mozart or Bach

post #1 of 128
6/16/08 at 6:43pm
Thread Starter 
A quick question, who's better: does Mozart beat Bach or Bach beat Mozart? And why?
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post #2 of 128
6/16/08 at 6:58pm

Bach but its really a very hard question

Impossible to answer objectively...........Bach was more prolific, so there he beats Mozart. Mozart could be subjectively perceived as more melodic so there he beats Bach (but I actually don't really think Mozart was more melodic than Bach)..........They also wrote in such different mediums.........Mozart is a great opera composer whereas Bach never wrote an opera and even if he had, it was a different time and Opera of the Baroque was considerably different than the opera of Mozart's time. Mozart wrote symphonies.......Bach lived in a time where symphonies were not around.....and even Sonata Allegro form was fairly new at the end of Bach's life. Bach wrote a far greater series of solo keyboard music than Mozart. Mozart's Piano concerti are probably greater than Bach's keyboard concertos, which are really adaptations of other works anyway.........Bach's sacred choral music is to me, the epitome of that genre and even beats Mozart's Requiem. The Brandenburg Concertos could I guess be compared to a symphony but theyre really not symphonies at all.........I give the edge to the Brandenburgs over Mozart's symphonies as great as they are. Bach was a master of counterpoint and specifically the Fugue......whereas Mozart was a master of classical balance and melody. If you prefer the latter than Mozart will be more important to you than Bach. However, to the history of music, there is no doubt in my mind that Bach is more influential and important. The reason I say this is.....while Mozart's music is adored and maybe the most famous in the world......it is not as continuously supplanted into every genre of music as Bach's music is........Bach's music can be felt blatantly in every genre of music from Jazz to Pop to Rock to Rap to Country to Techno to House to Metal and of course all the Classical subgenres...........Bach is the most important composer so far in the history of music. No Question.
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post #3 of 128
6/16/08 at 7:09pm
As DavidMahler said, It's a really hard question and I can't give an anwer of even a personnal prefference.

I do know that Bach lived longer than Mozart so he must have achieved a better overall work of art than Mozart but we can't cast aside that Mozart could have attained greater summits.

I am really not knowledgable but that's my opinion.
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post #4 of 128
6/16/08 at 7:32pm
Beats? I didn't realize music was a competition.
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post #5 of 128
6/16/08 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan T View Post
Beats? I didn't realize music was a competition.
I think it was a figure of speech talking about overall work.

You can turn anything into a competition even if it isn't at the begining...
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post #6 of 128
6/16/08 at 7:48pm
In a fistfight I'd take Bach, but that's assuming equal ages. I'm pretty sure Mozart could beat up his corpse/bones by the time he was old enough to walk.
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post #7 of 128
6/16/08 at 8:04pm
Can't say which beats the other, but I prefer Bach. I used to prefer Mozart and the romantic composers, but one day about 12 years ago, I heard a Bach piece and it spoke to me. I don't know why. I bought some Bach discs and he's been in regular rotation since.

The same thing happened with jazz a couple years ago. Never much liked it, then, somehow, the switch was flipped. I listen to jazz all the time now.
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post #8 of 128
6/16/08 at 8:37pm
I prefer Bach. His chaconne is the greatest piece of music I've ever heard.
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post #9 of 128
6/16/08 at 9:43pm
It is ike asking 100 guys to rate their preference: blondes or brunettes? apples or oranges?
As for myself, I like Bach by a big margin, and also blondes and oranges.
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post #10 of 128
6/16/08 at 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
Impossible to answer objectively...........Bach was more prolific, so there he beats Mozart. Mozart could be subjectively perceived as more melodic so there he beats Bach (but I actually don't really think Mozart was more melodic than Bach)..........They also wrote in such different mediums.........Mozart is a great opera composer whereas Bach never wrote an opera and even if he had, it was a different time and Opera of the Baroque was considerably different than the opera of Mozart's time. Mozart wrote symphonies.......Bach lived in a time where symphonies were not around.....and even Sonata Allegro form was fairly new at the end of Bach's life. Bach wrote a far greater series of solo keyboard music than Mozart. Mozart's Piano concerti are probably greater than Bach's keyboard concertos, which are really adaptations of other works anyway.........Bach's sacred choral music is to me, the epitome of that genre and even beats Mozart's Requiem. The Brandenburg Concertos could I guess be compared to a symphony but theyre really not symphonies at all.........I give the edge to the Brandenburgs over Mozart's symphonies as great as they are. Bach was a master of counterpoint and specifically the Fugue......whereas Mozart was a master of classical balance and melody. If you prefer the latter than Mozart will be more important to you than Bach. However, to the history of music, there is no doubt in my mind that Bach is more influential and important. The reason I say this is.....while Mozart's music is adored and maybe the most famous in the world......it is not as continuously supplanted into every genre of music as Bach's music is........Bach's music can be felt blatantly in every genre of music from Jazz to Pop to Rock to Rap to Country to Techno to House to Metal and of course all the Classical subgenres...........Bach is the most important composer so far in the history of music. No Question.
Are you related to Mahler THE composer? by any chance?
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post #11 of 128
6/16/08 at 9:55pm
I prefer Mozart.. by a hair. Requiem was a masterpiece

St.Matthew's Passion right behind IMO
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post #12 of 128
6/16/08 at 11:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilency View Post
Are you related to Mahler THE composer? by any chance?
Only in spirit.....Mahler is my favorite composer / musical thinker who ever lived
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post #13 of 128
6/16/08 at 11:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
Impossible to answer objectively...........Bach was more prolific, so there he beats Mozart. Mozart could be subjectively perceived as more melodic so there he beats Bach (but I actually don't really think Mozart was more melodic than Bach)..........They also wrote in such different mediums.........Mozart is a great opera composer whereas Bach never wrote an opera and even if he had, it was a different time and Opera of the Baroque was considerably different than the opera of Mozart's time. Mozart wrote symphonies.......Bach lived in a time where symphonies were not around.....and even Sonata Allegro form was fairly new at the end of Bach's life. Bach wrote a far greater series of solo keyboard music than Mozart. Mozart's Piano concerti are probably greater than Bach's keyboard concertos, which are really adaptations of other works anyway.........Bach's sacred choral music is to me, the epitome of that genre and even beats Mozart's Requiem. The Brandenburg Concertos could I guess be compared to a symphony but theyre really not symphonies at all.........I give the edge to the Brandenburgs over Mozart's symphonies as great as they are. Bach was a master of counterpoint and specifically the Fugue......whereas Mozart was a master of classical balance and melody. If you prefer the latter than Mozart will be more important to you than Bach. However, to the history of music, there is no doubt in my mind that Bach is more influential and important. The reason I say this is.....while Mozart's music is adored and maybe the most famous in the world......it is not as continuously supplanted into every genre of music as Bach's music is........Bach's music can be felt blatantly in every genre of music from Jazz to Pop to Rock to Rap to Country to Techno to House to Metal and of course all the Classical subgenres...........Bach is the most important composer so far in the history of music. No Question.
Thanks for a great answer. I generally prefer Mozart because it has more of a flow to it, where with Bach pieces it sometimes almost seems like he's thinking "ok, what key do I press now.. oh, there it is, right there" ;-). To be fair, though, this might be mostly because of instruments - harpsichord and organ pieces; I should also mention that I've heard relatively little of either composer so far. On the other hand, I really loved Orchestral Suites by Bach (usually? often? grouped with Brandenburg Concertos). I liked them much better than Brandenburg concertos, which aren't bad either. That applies to the one done by Marriner.

I think these orchestral suites are very Mozart-like. I do like his organ pieces, too, as well as harpsichord. One thing I really like about Bach more than Mozart is that it's easier for me as someone ignorant about theory of music to follow Bach's musical ideas because they are more discreet. Mozart is more overwhelming.

I would like to ask: if you had to compare music of these composers as it is, i.e. if you did not know who came first, would you still prefer Bach?

Is there a website that goes into this topic in more detail, i.e. into difference between composers like Bach, Mozart, Albinoni, Vivaldi, Bartok, between Symphonies and Concerti, Counterpoint, evolution of music and music theory throughout 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th centuries? I don't want to read a whole book, but if there's a good one that is available inexpensively I'd like to hear about it, too.

What's the oldest composed music that we have available on record? Do we know what compositions egyptians listened too, greeks, romans, ancient chinese and indians?
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post #14 of 128
6/16/08 at 11:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan T View Post
Beats? I didn't realize music was a competition.
Mozart thought it was. But I agree with you 100%, he was just an ignorant musician and didn't know what he was talking about ;-).
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post #15 of 128
6/16/08 at 11:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
Can't say which beats the other, but I prefer Bach. I used to prefer Mozart and the romantic composers, but one day about 12 years ago, I heard a Bach piece and it spoke to me. I don't know why. I bought some Bach discs and he's been in regular rotation since.

The same thing happened with jazz a couple years ago. Never much liked it, then, somehow, the switch was flipped. I listen to jazz all the time now.
Which piece?
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