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How to detect Snake Oil - Page 6

post #76 of 91
6/19/08 at 5:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
You must be buying the wrong cables.

See ya
Steve
I don't buy many, I hate the profit margins high-end companies take. I buy lots of bulk cables and experiment; thats hundreds of different cables and hundreds of hours listening to what makes a difference (including geometry, as I've recently proven in my speaker cables).
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post #77 of 91
6/19/08 at 7:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post
I don't buy many, I hate the profit margins high-end companies take. I buy lots of bulk cables and experiment; thats hundreds of different cables and hundreds of hours listening to what makes a difference (including geometry, as I've recently proven in my speaker cables).
My oh my, you use the word "proven" too lightly.
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post #78 of 91
6/19/08 at 8:09am
I'd just like to add that this is a great thread. I hate snake oil. I don't understand why DBT's aren't utilized more often.
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post #79 of 91
6/19/08 at 8:22am

The audibility of cables is a protected myth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jingo Lingo View Post
I don't understand why DBT's aren't utilized more often.
i.e.
Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum)

Sticky: Do not discuss DBT in this or other forums


-


Attempt two:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jingo Lingo View Post
I don't understand why DBT's aren't utilized more often.
It doesn't sell.


.
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post #80 of 91
6/19/08 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFerrier View Post
i.e.
Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum)

Sticky: Do not discuss DBT in this or other forums
Doesn't address his point, unless (and I hope this is true), all the magic cable users are secretly confirming their beliefs constantly with rigorous testing, but not informing us due to the rules.

Also, if one was successfully carried out (ie. one that showed there are appreciable differences between cables), I doubt any of the sensetive cable users here would object. I'd imagine they'd be overjoyed.
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post #81 of 91
6/19/08 at 10:14am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monolith View Post
Doesn't address his point, unless (and I hope this is true), all the magic cable users are secretly confirming their beliefs constantly with rigorous testing, but not informing us due to the rules.

Also, if one was successfully carried out (ie. one that showed there are appreciable differences between cables), I doubt any of the sensetive cable users here would object. I'd imagine they'd be overjoyed.
We ALL know the reason why DBT is forbidden fruit... it dispels the bs flowery subjective descriptions by shattering the illusion/dellusion (placebokill) and therefore people would lose advertizing dollars
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post #82 of 91
6/19/08 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Know Talent View Post
placebokill
Think you coined a new word there (zero hits with google). Heard of Bikini Kill. Placebokill.... I like it.
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post #83 of 91
6/19/08 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggeh View Post
I have snake oil detectors available, £349.99 each and can be used up to 15 times before you need to refill the detection cartridge.
What a bargain!
Last time I saw "snake oil detectors" for sale they were £399.99, and those were for 10 uses only...
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post #84 of 91
6/19/08 at 1:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFerrier View Post
Think you coined a new word there (zero hits with google). Heard of Bikini Kill. Placebokill.... I like it.

and don't forget buzzkill

Oh o, five-0...what a buzzkill
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post #85 of 91
6/19/08 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by monolith View Post
My oh my, you use the word "proven" too lightly.
Large quantities of braided wires have HUGE capacitance and this results in quite a bit of bass in the sound. I used the exactly same cat5 wire and twisted them with multiple wires beside each other (essentially groups of signal/ground wires) and capacitance went down quite a bit, but inductance went up. This cable sounds less bass-heavy. Easiest test; I have a pair of each, I plug in one of each for each speaker and one speaker sounds like it's heavier on the bass than the other (easiest to check by putting hand on the speaker stand; one vibrates MUCH more than the other).
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post #86 of 91
6/19/08 at 5:20pm
It's either that or the screws mounting the speaker into the cabinet have worked loose. Or perhaps the center detent on your amp isn't really centered. Try swapping the cables and see if the vibration goes with it.

See ya
Steve
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post #87 of 91
6/19/08 at 5:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
It's either that or the screws mounting the speaker into the cabinet have worked loose. Or perhaps the center detent on your amp isn't really centered. Try swapping the cables and see if the vibration goes with it.

See ya
Steve
I've checked the screws (removed front panels). As I've said before, I build everything, including my speaker amp. This theory might work, but I can switch the cables to the other speaker and the same thing happens.
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post #88 of 91
6/19/08 at 5:50pm
Try and see. It helps to try to isolate what is causing the difference.

See ya
Steve
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post #89 of 91
6/19/08 at 5:54pm
Fallen Angel, have you measured the capacitance and inductance of your cables? Would you please post what you found?
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post #90 of 91
6/20/08 at 12:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post
... geometry determines capacitance and inductance and material determines resistance...
Geometry determines resistance, too.

No one asked me, but I've always believed that "cable science" (as the website cited in this thread's genesis termed it) is a lot of hooey. Give me good stranded 14-gauge zipcord. It works fine. I'll spend the dough I saved on better sources and music itself.

Perhaps some of you are familiar with the Pease Porridge column in Electronic Design Magazine. Bob Pease is a staff scientist at National Semiconductor and earned a PhD in electrical engineering at MIT in 1961. He's been doing battle with "cable science" for years, debunking their claims, sometimes hilariously.

In one column, Bob took on some guy who claimed he could hear audible "effects" of splices in cables. He offered to send the guy a sealed box with some number of cables running through it and connectors on either end. Some cables would have some number of splices in them, and some would have none, and the guy was to tell Pease which was which. He never heard from the guy again.
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