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Blue Pill or Red Pill? - Page 2

post #16 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_ah1 View Post
Head burns in.
Yes. The neural connections are constantly changing.... thank goodness...
post #17 of 63
As already mentioned, this article is eight years old and has already been widely discussed here numerous times. The biggest problem I have with this article is that it is presented as fact instead of opinion, which is what it is.

While there are some points I agree with, there are others I strongly disagree with. It is really up to the individual listener to make up his or her own mind regarding them. I suppose if this article was written today, an additional lie would be that MP3s don't sound as good as lossless files.
post #18 of 63
Zotjen, out of curiosity, which parts specifically in the article are opinion and not fact? The information may be contested as false, but AFAIK there's no opinion being stated as fact.
post #19 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi View Post
omg... my life has been a lie?!

I hope someone gets this reference....

THE CAKE IS A LIE
post #20 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by zotjen View Post
The biggest problem I have with this article is that it is presented as fact instead of opinion, which is what it is.
It's *informed* opinion, which is a LOT better than the anecdotal subjectiveness that passes for opinions on the internet. The person who wrote this article knows his stuff.

See ya
Steve
post #21 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcrown View Post
Zotjen, out of curiosity, which parts specifically in the article are opinion and not fact? The information may be contested as false, but AFAIK there's no opinion being stated as fact.
Well, unless I'm mistaken, there's nothing in the article that states any of these points are the author's opinion. It's all presented matter-of-factly, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
It's *informed* opinion, which is a LOT better than the anecdotal subjectiveness that passes for opinions on the internet. The person who wrote this article knows his stuff.

See ya
Steve
Well yes, but even an informed opinion is still an opinion. FWIW, it's not my intention to start a war as to whether this article should be construed as opinion or fact. IMHO, the author is stating these lies as fact without taking individual subjectiveness into consideration. If anyone else feels differently, that's fine by me.
post #22 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolink24 View Post
I hope someone gets this reference....

THE CAKE IS A LIE
I got your back.

post #23 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolink24 View Post
I hope someone gets this reference....

THE CAKE IS A LIE


Would like to have a word with you.
post #24 of 63
There is no spoon.................

Cables =







post #25 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by zotjen View Post
Well yes, but even an informed opinion is still an opinion. FWIW, it's not my intention to start a war as to whether this article should be construed as opinion or fact. IMHO, the author is stating these lies as fact without taking individual subjectiveness into consideration. If anyone else feels differently, that's fine by me.
All opinions are not created equal. Some opinions, like the ones in this article, are backed up with experience and supported with evidence. Other opinions, like your opinion that this author is "stating lies", are totally unsupported. Saying, "If anyone feels differently, that's OK" pretty much slams the lid on discussion and suggests that you don't even have what it takes to support your position. I'll value your opinion accordingly.

See ya
Steve
post #26 of 63
OK, I think there's some mix-ups on what is a truth-functional claim and what is an opinion. Every claim that the author makes in the article is a truth-functional claim, and not an opinion. In essence, he is indeed stating a fact. Now, when I say fact, I don't mean that what he is saying is necessarily correct, but I'm saying that he is making a falsifiable claim.

Opinions differ from truth-functional claims because opinions cannot be falsified. For instance, if I state "I really like ice cream sandwiches," or "I prefer mustard on my hot dog over ketchup," neither of those two things can be falsified. However, if I say "the Earth is flat," then I have made a truth-functional claim, and it can be falsified. The key difference is that I can't be wrong in saying that I like mustard, but I can be wrong in saying that the Earth is flat.

Now, in this case, the author has made 10 claims, none of which is his opinion - I'll list the core claim of each "myth":

1. Cables don't make an audible difference.

2. Vacuum tubes have objectively lower performance than solid-state gear (note, he specifically mentions distortion as a factor of performance).

3. Digital media offers equal, if not better, performance when compared to analog media (he makes a subset of claims beneath this, but it's the core one).

4. ABX testing is not flawed as a manner of comparing equipment.

5. As long as basic guidelines are followed, negative feedback boosts the performance of amplifiers.

6. There is no such thing as burn-in when it comes to cables and electrical components.

7. Biwiring makes no audible difference.

8. Power conditioners make no audible difference.

9. CD treatments make no audible difference.

10. So-called "Golden-Ears" don't exist, and you can prove this by subjecting them to an ABX test.

Now, what can we do with these? You can say that he offers no substantiation for these claims (which is fine and good, and in this case valid for a number of them), that his line of reasoning is wrong, that his arguments don't logically follow (I dunno if he actually does do that, but it's an option). Hell, you can even just flat-out say he's wrong (and it'd be a good idea to explain why he's wrong). But the one thing he's not doing is giving his opinion. He's not talking about his preferences, he's not making some sort of normative claim (all people ought to use digital). He's not assessing or evaluating something. He's making a truth-functional claim.

Also, when you say "IMHO, the author is stating these lies as fact without taking individual subjectiveness into consideration," you're also making a truth functional claim, and prefacing that with "in my opinion," doesn't make it so.

PS: I didn't write this as a direct attack on zotjen, and if it came off as overly so I apologize. I just wrote this because many people confuse fact (or claims to fact) and opinion fairly often.
post #27 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
All opinions are not created equal. Some opinions, like the ones in this article, are backed up with experience and supported with evidence. Other opinions, like your opinion that this author is "stating lies", are totally unsupported. Saying, "If anyone feels differently, that's OK" pretty much slams the lid on discussion and suggests that you don't even have what it takes to support your position. I'll value your opinion accordingly.

See ya
Steve
Please re-read what I said. I did not say the author was "stating lies". When I said, "the author is stating these lies as fact", I was referring to the lies in the title of the article (i.e. The Top 10 Lies In Audio). I do not think the author is lying, just stating what he believes and which he has the right to do so.
post #28 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcrown View Post
Also, when you say "IMHO, the author is stating these lies as fact without taking individual subjectiveness into consideration," you're also making a truth functional claim, and prefacing that with "in my opinion," doesn't make it so.

PS: I didn't write this as a direct attack on zotjen, and if it came off as overly so I apologize. I just wrote this because many people confuse fact (or claims to fact) and opinion fairly often.
No offense taken. I do understand your point though. Basically, anything you say that can be proven or disproven is not an opinion. So if I say, "In my opinion, the Senn 650's are the best headphones available today," this isn't really an opinion. But if I said, "Of all the headphones I have heard, I like the 650's the best." Then this would be an opinion, correct?
post #29 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by zotjen View Post
Please re-read what I said. I did not say the author was "stating lies". When I said, "the author is stating these lies as fact", I was referring to the lies in the title of the article (i.e. The Top 10 Lies In Audio). I do not think the author is lying, just stating what he believes and which he has the right to do so.
Sorry. I was thinking of the article as a whole and not the title. If that's the context of your comment, then I'll point out that the author of the article isn't "stating lies as fact"; he's proving them to be lies by offering objective proof that goes beyond vague subjectivity. It's up to someone who disagrees to provide stronger and more convincing objective arguments to support their differing opinion.

See ya
Steve
post #30 of 63
On the subject of cables, power conditioning, et al, it's pretty hard to argue with the laws of physics.

His remark about tubes vs. solid-state and digital vs. analog is a little off-putting though. From a purely technical standpoint he's correct, but technical perfection isn't the point. The point is what sounds best to you.

I am of the opinion that many of these people... both the peen-lengthening ego cases who amass expensive gear to impress people, and those obsessed with "exact sound" are fooling themselves. A lot of them should really remember what prompted the hobby in the first place--the music.

It's all about enjoying the music, and when the equipment becomes a priority above the music then you've wandered off the path somewhere down the line.
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