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Rega P2 - Best TT under $600-$700??? - Page 3

post #31 of 73
Thread Starter 
Thanks Timjo- the more I research the more I am leaning towards getting a new Pro-ject Xpression. I realize the benefits of buying used and have certainly gone that route with gear and enjoyed the results. But since I will be forced to buy online due to where I live, I would like to know it comes with a guarantee and that at least for now I do not have to replace anything. I replaced the cartridge on my ATPL120 and it was such a huge pain in the butt. I know down the road I will have to do it again but I would rather not do it soon.

The reviews on the Pro-ject elsewhere on the web are quite strong.
post #32 of 73
I'm not a huge fan of Rega tables either having never owned one personally but shared a flat with a guy who had a P(lanar) 3.

However if you're averse to tweaking and just want a deck which has been designed to make vinyl playback as painless and convenient as possible then there is a lot to be said for Rega. They even have a 3 point mounting system for their own brand carts which makes fitting them a doddle. No faffing around with alignment protractors or VTA etc because it's all designed to work perfectly together as a system.

Where they fall down, and the main reason I can think of to look at other options is that because of the strength of Sterling vs. the USD they are a bit steep these days for what you actually get. Having said that the Euro is also pretty strong at the moment so I'd be surprised if Pro-Ject can hold their price for long. What about Sota? or VPI, they offer a lot more for your money if your money is in dollars and you want something box fresh.Technics SL1200 is a definite bargain as well.

Design wise all these minimalist solid plinth decks will pick up vibration pretty easily so a wall shelf from the likes of Target or Apollo is a very good investment unless you are lucky enough to have a solid stone or concrete floor.

Getting something shipped over the web isn't ever going to be as great with a turntable because even if they say they've aligned the stylus for you, unless it's a 3 point design like the Rega, I'd always check and recheck the alignment when you set it up.

There really is a lot to be said for a local dealer who will do this kind of stuff and let you listen before you buy. Any of these decks we've mentioned will be a massive step up from the AT you have presently so i'd just get the one which is the most convenient.
post #33 of 73
Thread Starter 
Well I started checking out the Modded Technic Tables at Kabusa.com and I am intrigued by this route. Can someone explain to me the big differences between the 1200, 1210MK5Se, and the 1210M5GSE. Also what mods are recommended for these?

EDIT: It seems that the 1210M5GSE is the one I would want due to better wiring and tonearm, at least according to KAB ("M5G's and GLD's feature improved tonearm wand and interconnect wiring."). But from there what would you guys recommending getting on this particular model? I am leaning toward the following mods:

I. Eichmann Tellurium Bullet Connectors $49.00 [Put Hi Quality Eichmann RCA's Onto Existing Technics Cable]

M. KAB/Ortofon Concorde Pro S30 Integrated Cartridge $292.00

and possible this one, however I am a little confused as to what it does exactly- J. Tonearm Rewire $169.00. Cardas to KAB PC-1200 RCA Phono Plate[2 RCA Females plus ground post]
post #34 of 73
I'll jump in here, as I'm seeing (what I see as) some misinformation.

The regas (aside from the P1) are significantly better built than their equivalent music hall and pj counterparts. They also have exceptional arms.

However, the pj's at least have rudimentary suspensions, so they don't requre an absolutely rock solid platform.

In short, if you have suspended floors, you will NEED a shelf system for a rega.[LEFT]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimJo View Post
The main reason I asked is if your using it mostly with headphones, then the plinth is not a huge issue since the vibration issues are diminished. If you had a hifi shop nearby, then the cartridge setup would be a non-issue as well.
I really don't understand this. I could understand someone saying "Do you remain absolutely still under all circumstances while listening" but whether it's with headphones or speakers if your floor moves so will the rega. I dj'd for years, and only under extreme circumstances did the speakers feedback on the cartridge. The first time was a terry mullan show featuring woody mcbride's "wall of bass". This was also the first night I ever felt so much bass that I ruped a little in my mouth. The second time was at a lounge where the mgmt made the decision to mount 18" woofers onto the dj booth. I hope you don't plan on doing either of these.

I also disagree with that you should buy something used online if you are not capable of (or unwilling to) set up a cartridge. In that case you need to find someone who can do that for you and most of the time that would be a dealer. Alternatively, finding someone local would be a huge bonus.

The KAB technics is pretty highly recommended by many, but then you hear that the most effective upgrade is the power supply and I always thought that was the strength of the T12. An acquaintance of mine has the 1200 with the rega arm and origin live adapter. Apparently it's the bee's knees but I haven't had a chance to check it out.

I really don't have any suggestions for what I think you should buy. I do suggest that you read up and become familiar with the myriad of alignments (overhang, vta, azimuth) that a turntable requires. Putting some time playing around with with your current setup will result in audible benefits. Picking up a dirtcheap ebay cart and practicing installing it won't hurt either!

For me, I love my current suspended deck, and I've owned quite a few of the classics (but not the linn). I'd really like to move up the gyro, but I went back to grad school instead.
post #35 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangaea View Post
Well I started checking out the Modded Technic Tables at Kabusa.com and I am intrigued by this route. Can someone explain to me the big differences between the 1200, 1210MK5Se, and the 1210M5GSE. Also what mods are recommended for these?

EDIT: It seems that the 1210M5GSE is the one I would want due to better wiring and tonearm, at least according to KAB ("M5G's and GLD's feature improved tonearm wand and interconnect wiring."). But from there what would you guys recommending getting on this particular model? I am leaning toward the following mods:

I. Eichmann Tellurium Bullet Connectors $49.00 [Put Hi Quality Eichmann RCA's Onto Existing Technics Cable]

M. KAB/Ortofon Concorde Pro S30 Integrated Cartridge $292.00

and possible this one, however I am a little confused as to what it does exactly- J. Tonearm Rewire $169.00. Cardas to KAB PC-1200 RCA Phono Plate[2 RCA Females plus ground post]
The plain 1200/1210 MK2 has all you need for music listening. The higher grade decks have mostly extra DJ features. I went with the KABUSA power supply because this is really the only feature that actually improves the deck itself. Most of the other features just improve the tonearm which I ultimately discarded. Changing the tonearm takes about an hour and brings the Technics 1200 to dangerously high end territory.
post #36 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssportclay View Post
I went with the KABUSA power supply because this is really the only feature that actually improves the deck itself.
Could you explain this? In my post above I questioned the effectiveness of this mod, as I've always understood that the strength of the 1200 lies in its speed stability. What does this mod due in that regard? Is the quartz lock not really up to the task?
post #37 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by shallbehealed View Post
Could you explain this? In my post above I questioned the effectiveness of this mod, as I've always understood that the strength of the 1200 lies in its speed stability. What does this mod due in that regard? Is the quartz lock not really up to the task?
The external power supply removes magnetic fields and acoustic vibration within the turntable. I can't hear the turntable running with or without the power supply but it does slightly put the sound stage more in focus. If your speakers don't image well,you probably wont need the PS but people with high end gear will definitely want it. The sound stage my Technics throws is noticeably better than my belt drive Thorens TD-160 which comes across slightly smeared.
post #38 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangaea View Post
EDIT: It seems that the 1210M5GSE is the one I would want due to better wiring and tonearm, at least according to KAB ("M5G's and GLD's feature improved tonearm wand and interconnect wiring."). But from there what would you guys recommending getting on this particular model? I am leaning toward the following mods:

I. Eichmann Tellurium Bullet Connectors $49.00 [Put Hi Quality Eichmann RCA's Onto Existing Technics Cable]

M. KAB/Ortofon Concorde Pro S30 Integrated Cartridge $292.00

and possible this one, however I am a little confused as to what it does exactly- J. Tonearm Rewire $169.00. Cardas to KAB PC-1200 RCA Phono Plate[2 RCA Females plus ground post]
I'd just go for the simplest (and cheapest) one which is the MKII. The later ones have added tweaks to the tonearm but also extra DJ oriented refinements which are completely superfluous for just listening to records. These introduce extra electronics into the deck which don't add anything to the sound and can only detract from it.

Upgrading the tonearm is usually the single most effective upgrade you can make to any deck if the motorboard is upto it. The Technics and KAB upgrades for the most part focus on getting every last ounce of performace out of the existing arm but once you add up the cost of all these you could just get a better arm to start with.

This may sound like butchery to some die hard Technics fans but originally the 1200 was offered with or without the Technics stock arm (SL120) and you could mount the arm of your chosing. You usually see these 2nd hand with the SME3009.
post #39 of 73
Thread Starter 
^ So the "improved tonearm wand and interconnect wiring" that KABUSA talks about is not worth it on the 1210M5GSE? Even if I don't see myself changing the arm for awhile?
post #40 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangaea View Post
^ So the "improved tonearm wand and interconnect wiring" that KABUSA talks about is not worth it on the 1210M5GSE? Even if I don't see myself changing the arm for awhile?
The stock tonearm on the Technics 1200 MKII or 1210 MKII will work fine with the cartridges it likes without any upgrades. If you think you want to get into some serious DJ work, then you might want to consider the 12105GSE with all of the DJ upgrades. I have no need for the later deck because I just listen to music at home.
post #41 of 73
Thread Starter 
I have no interest in DJing at all. Just want the best sound from my records. So it would seem the 12105GSE is not for me.

Now I am leaning towards the 1200MK2Se with the (Tonearm Rewire $169.00. Cardas to KAB PC-1200 RCA Phono Plate) upgrade and KAB/Ortofon Concorde Pro S30 Integrated Cartridge $292.00. The only dilema I see now is that I am easily reaching that 1000.00 threshold which would put me in range of the P3 (w/ cartridge), Pro-ject Xperience, or the MMF 5.1SE.
post #42 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangaea View Post
I have no interest in DJing at all. Just want the best sound from my records. So it would seem the 12105GSE is not for me.

Now I am leaning towards the 1200MK2Se with the (Tonearm Rewire $169.00. Cardas to KAB PC-1200 RCA Phono Plate) upgrade and KAB/Ortofon Concorde Pro S30 Integrated Cartridge $292.00. The only dilema I see now is that I am easily reaching that 1000.00 threshold which would put me in range of the P3 (w/ cartridge), Pro-ject Xperience, or the MMF 5.1SE.
My first thought is that if you don't want the power supply, the most cost effective 1210 is to get it from musiciansfriend @ $399 and put a Denon 110 or Denon 160 cartridge on it with a MM Phono preamp or install a Denon 103 cartridge with a MC Phono preamp. You can upgrade the tonearm any time you like. If you want the power supply, then buy it from KABUSA and have Kevin install it for you and save yourself the bother of it. Review Memepool's last post before making a decision. He really put it quite well.
post #43 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssportclay View Post
The external power supply removes magnetic fields and acoustic vibration within the turntable.
You do realize that a direct drive uses an electromagnetic drive system don't you?

I had a pair of 1200's for more than 10 years, and only sold them to make room for a child. They were great, but I've heard better sound from a properly set up AR XA. Especially if you're using a felt or the stock mat. A cork spot mat was a huge upgrade.

ps. My system throws a fine soundstage, thank you very much.
post #44 of 73
Thread Starter 
I think the only thing I am interested in upgrading on the 1200 is the arm or at least the wiring done by KAB. I have a nice Furman power conditioner and that is as far as I want to take the power, and I realize a lot of people will disagree with that but as far as that part goes my decision is made. I am still concerned about the quality of the stock tone arm and I also do not like how the RCA interconnects are directly connected with no say in using something else. Anyway - this is def a tough decision. I appreciate everyones feedback.
post #45 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by shallbehealed View Post
You do realize that a direct drive uses an electromagnetic drive system don't you?

I had a pair of 1200's for more than 10 years, and only sold them to make room for a child. They were great, but I've heard better sound from a properly set up AR XA. Especially if you're using a felt or the stock mat. A cork spot mat was a huge upgrade.

ps. My system throws a fine soundstage, thank you very much.
Hi shallbehealed:I actually owned a new AR XB with the cuing mechanism many years ago when it first came out. I ended up selling it to my brother so that I could upgrade to a Thorens TD-160 which I still have. The AR is a fairly nice turntable but it's stock tonearm is kind of primitive by today's standards. My Technics 1200 with an Origin Live Silver tonearm is a fairly large upgrade above both of those tables in stock form but they are both worth working with. A friend of mine also had an AR XA turntable with a pair of wharfedale bookshelf speakers powered by a heathkit. I was always amazed by the sound of that little system at the time. That AR XA was fairly good stuff at the time.
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