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Denon AH-D7000 - Page 442

post #6616 of 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post


Fostex specs indicate an evolutionary upgrade to the driver (not "new technology" at all), but the insides are still the same. If Mark Lawton is to be believed, there is also no damping material inside the cups. I had the opportunity to audition the TH-900 with my own music and upstream gear recently and unless you listen to them side-by-side with the D7000, I think the audible difference is very subtle. Similar to the difference between the D5000 and D7000 if I had to give a frame of reference.They are very close and obviously two peas from the same pod.

Im sure the TH-600 is a fine headphone too (I havent heard it), but I am very skeptical of any claim that the D7000 has "far less" of anything found in its Fostex brothers. Sounds like typical head-fi hyperbole to me...

 

Uh... where are you getting your info from? There is definitely damping material inside the cups. I've taken them apart a few times to swap pads and you have to remove the dampening material to do that. Regarding "not new technology" that is relative to the person I suppose. I don't see anyone else using the same technology as the TH-900. I guess we all hear different, but anyone who is interested in the Fostex series should look at both sides of the coin. Obviously, a lot of this skepticism has to do with the fact that this is the D7000 thread. If you go over to the Fostex thread, you will find MANY people that enjoy the TH-900 over the D7K, and call the difference more than subtle. Obviously, everyone should decide for themselves before buying anything, but this is just a classic example for why we should all take what people say with a huge pile of salt. To me, I've owned both and the D7K twice (two version), there is definitely a difference and the difference is more than subtle for me as well. I've auditioned the TH-600, but didn't have enough time to properly give any comparisons a thought, so I won't. 

post #6617 of 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post


Fostex specs indicate an evolutionary upgrade to the driver (not "new technology" at all), but the insides are still the same. If Mark Lawton is to be believed, there is also no damping material inside the cups. I had the opportunity to audition the TH-900 with my own music and upstream gear recently and unless you listen to them side-by-side with the D7000, I think the audible difference is very subtle. Similar to the difference between the D5000 and D7000 if I had to give a frame of reference.They are very close and obviously two peas from the same pod.

Im sure the TH-600 is a fine headphone too (I havent heard it), but I am very skeptical of any claim that the D7000 has "far less" of anything found in its Fostex brothers. Sounds like typical head-fi hyperbole to me...


Depends on what you define as new technology. It's a bio-cellulose driver that hits 1 Tesla, but yes you could say it's an evolution of the micro-fiber free-edge diaphragms used in the Denon.

 

(not my photo)

 

The D7000 is pretty distorted in the bass and Fostex has largely resolved this issue at least in the TH900.


Edited by 3X0 - 6/25/13 at 12:57pm
post #6618 of 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

Uh... where are you getting your info from? There is definitely damping material inside the cups. I've taken them apart a few times to swap pads and you have to remove the dampening material to do that. Regarding "not new technology" that is relative to the person I suppose. I don't see anyone else using the same technology as the TH-900. I guess we all hear different, but anyone who is interested in the Fostex series should look at both sides of the coin. Obviously, a lot of this skepticism has to do with the fact that this is the D7000 thread. If you go over to the Fostex thread, you will find MANY people that enjoy the TH-900 over the D7K, and call the difference more than subtle. Obviously, everyone should decide for themselves before buying anything, but this is just a classic example for why we should all take what people say with a huge pile of salt. To me, I've owned both and the D7K twice (two version), there is definitely a difference and the difference is more than subtle for me as well. I've auditioned the TH-600, but didn't have enough time to properly give any comparisons a thought, so I won't. 


Yes, sound is subjective. For you and others, maybe it is significant. For me, I thought it was subtle.

I got the information from the Lawton website. Since I havent personally opened a TH-900 and you have, I'll defer to your first-hand knowledge.

Why do you remove the cups to swap pads?!?! They simply twist off...
Edited by palmfish - 6/25/13 at 1:45pm
post #6619 of 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post


Depends on what you define as new technology. It's a bio-cellulose driver that hits 1 Tesla, but yes you could say it's an evolution of the micro-fiber free-edge diaphragms used in the Denon.



(not my photo)

The D7000 is pretty distorted in the bass and Fostex has largely resolved this issue at least in the TH900.

All the Denon AH-Dxxxx headphones have used Foster biocellulose drivers for years. From the CAL all the way to the D7000 (and yes, the TH-900).

It is not new technology and I doubt that the TH-900 driver is significantly different from the D7000. Evolutionary maybe. Definitely not revolutionary.
Edited by palmfish - 6/25/13 at 1:34pm
post #6620 of 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post


The D7000 driver is also "bio-cellulose."

Nope, Fostex makes the distinction that the earlier Denon drivers were "free edge microfiber".

 

 

You won't find any Denon materials to suggest the drivers were plant-derived as the BioDyna of the Fostexes obviously are.


Edited by 3X0 - 6/25/13 at 1:36pm
post #6621 of 7156
Oh, the humanity! I never thought Id see the day that an audio company would stoop to inventing a fancy schmancy name to separate its "high end" product from another less expensive "mainstream" product of e same design! rolleyes.gif

Here's a link to a head-fi thread from 2007...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/275683/full-size-woodies-w-biocellulose-drivers-from-fostex

Follow the link or do a google search for Foster Headphone Series 448498
Edited by palmfish - 6/25/13 at 1:50pm
post #6622 of 7156

Quote:

Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

Here's a link to a head-fi thread from 2007...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/275683/full-size-woodies-w-biocellulose-drivers-from-fostex

Follow the link or do a google search for Foster Headphone Series 448498

From that very thread:

Originally Posted by markl View PostAlso, the Denons are not Biocellulose, it's Microfiber: "Microfiber diaphragm--Microfiber diaphragms have 100x the density of cellulose diaphragms, delivering increased transmission rates and more faithful sonic reproduction"
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View PostI'm correcting myself. I just remembered that the Denons are not using biocellulose drivers. They use microfiber drivers made by Fostex.

et alia (funny since ML seems to refer to the Denons as biocellulose on Lawton Audio now, even though we know that's not quite the case).

 

In any case it's a technical distinction that bears little weight to the fact that the new BioDyna Fostex headphones are less distorted than the older microfiber Denons.

post #6623 of 7156
A rose by any other name...

Mark doesn't appear to know that cellulose IS A fiber...a fiber most commonly used to make paper! Yes, it seems he does know now.

Also...From Creative website...

"Creative Aurvana Live! - High performance drivers
Enjoy clear and detailed highs, coupled with remarkable deep and rich bass tones from the powerful Neodymium magnet driver with ultra-thin bio-cellulose diaphragm."

So lets see... Youre essentially saying that, although Foster makes all three, you believe that Fostex drivers are "Biodyna" Denons are "Microfiber" and Creatives are "Biocellulose" and that these three materials are all unique and different?
Edited by palmfish - 6/25/13 at 2:19pm
post #6624 of 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post


Yes, sound is subjective. For you and others, maybe it is significant. For me, I thought it was subtle.

I got the information from the Lawton website. Since I havent personally opened a TH-900 and you have, I'll defer to your first-hand knowledge.

Why do you remove the cups to swap pads?!?! They simply twist off...

 

The cups twist off yes, but in order to put new ones on, removing the cups is a lot easier. I don't want to damage the frame or cups on $1500 headphone, so I do it the most cautious way. You might be able to apply the new pads without removing the cups, but when I tried, it was a bit too difficult making me uneasy. 

post #6625 of 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

The cups twist off yes, but in order to put new ones on, removing the cups is a lot easier. I don't want to damage the frame or cups on $1500 headphone, so I do it the most cautious way. You might be able to apply the new pads without removing the cups, but when I tried, it was a bit too difficult making me uneasy. 

Yikes!

I swapped pads on my D7000's numerous times. They easily twist on/off. Regarding the cups, I was always concerned about stripping the threads that keep the cups screwed to the frame. I never removed the cups on mine - thats why I elected to send mine to Mark for the work rather than doing it myself.
post #6626 of 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

 

The cups twist off yes, but in order to put new ones on, removing the cups is a lot easier. I don't want to damage the frame or cups on $1500 headphone, so I do it the most cautious way. You might be able to apply the new pads without removing the cups, but when I tried, it was a bit too difficult making me uneasy. 

 

 

I´m not quite sure I understand how it would be easier to remove the cups?

 

To me, the scary part is removing the cups :o

 

The screws are sooo tiny, you're just waiting for them to gnaw of the fine threads in the wooden cup ^^

post #6627 of 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post


Yikes!

I swapped pads on my D7000's numerous times. They easily twist on/off. Regarding the cups, I was always concerned about stripping the threads that keep the cups screwed to the frame. I never removed the cups on mine - thats why I elected to send mine to Mark for the work rather than doing it myself.


The cups easily twisted off for me, but were a pain to twist back on. My first time putting them on took about 20 minutes, as I was a bit cautious after reading MarkL's instructions, which said to go easy on the plastic ring's 4 white teeth. After a few times I got the hang of it though.  

post #6628 of 7156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee inthe Attic View Post


The cups easily twisted off for me, but were a pain to twist back on. My first time putting them on took about 20 minutes, as I was a bit cautious after reading MarkL's instructions, which said to go easy on the plastic ring's 4 white teeth. After a few times I got the hang of it though.  

 

This ^ was the trouble I had. There were a breeze to slip off, but putting them back on took a lot of effort. I was able to unscrew the cups relatively easy, and then putting the pads on were even easier. I thoroughly inspected my cups and frame for scratches and scuff and there was none, so I'm happy.

post #6629 of 7156

Here's a great little video on how to take them apart.  It all starts with the pads..............

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbnTewPxoZU
 

post #6630 of 7156

the D7k with the angled pads and markl mod i had where really good. though they did sound sibilant in the treble, on good recordings and general music, not a huge issue. but on louder poor recordings, the type i would raise the volume on to really enjoy the bass, it would be piercing sharp and the d7000 didn't sound all that great. whenever the treble got bad at normal volumes, it was always uncomfortable, just very sibilant, only my warmest tubes would quell it, at the expense of bass quality.

 

just hearing th-900 for not more than 15 minutes, i immediately noticed how much better it is. it can still get bright, but its more controlled, its slightly less colored in the mids and more linear, and the bass is just as monstrous, same denon bass, but alot of the resonance is gone and it just sounds tighter and cleaner, while still being just as powerful having the same texture and decay. its just alot better and vocals seemed even better on it as well.

 

also th-900 seemed to be faster and less congested. i know which headphone i'm getting next tongue_smile.gif


Edited by Dubstep Girl - 6/25/13 at 9:08pm
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