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About to pull the trigger on a Beresford TC-7510 - Page 5  

post #61 of 81
6/19/08 at 10:53pm
I understand your point, Redo, but do not believe Beresford is any different than the multitude of sellers on eBay, for example, who sell products they don't even have. The term is drop shipping - where one person sells a product and the item is drop shipped from a manufacturer or wholesaler warehouse. I really do not see the problem with that.

It seems that Beresford is primarily reselling another product which he may or may not modify in the UK. He may embellish a bit on the product description, but that is marketing.

My Beresford unit was drop shipped directly from Taiwan and it was as Stanley described on his website and in his email follow up with me. I got what I paid for. Simple as that.

One day I hope to demo a more sophisticated (i.e. expensive) DAC to see if there is a huge difference in sound quality. If there is, the Beresford goes up for sale.
post #62 of 81
6/20/08 at 12:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by datura647 View Post
I Recently received this e-mail from Technolink:

Dear Sirs,

...the modification from MK5 to MK6/3 was done in UK at his lab rather than by us, as it is no possible for us to arrange such kind of the extra work...

Regards,


James Chan.


.

Then we have:

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakfastchef View Post
My Beresford unit was drop shipped directly from Taiwan and it was as Stanley described on his website and in his email follow up with me.
Previous posters would have us believe the reason for the EXTREME markup between the Technolink DAC (from Tiawan) and the Beresford DAC is supposed to be due to a modification performed on the Technolink in the UK by Beresford. Yet the Beresford is drop shipped from Taiwan? What’s the explanation for this apparent contradiction?
post #63 of 81
6/20/08 at 3:26am
Hi-Fi Low-Life, you say the Beresford is an overpriced Technolink and you want to see evidence otherwise, but the evidence is right here in this thread.

For one, Technolink does not sell the units individually so it is difficult to say that they are less expensive than Beresford when he is a retail seller.

Second, the e-mail I posted from Technolink confirms what Beresford previously told me which is that the Technolink DAC is the Mk5, 3 versions older than the current Mk6/3. The Technolink e-mail further states that the 6/3 has better performance than their unit, meaning the 6/3 is not an "overpriced Technolink DAC" rather a more advanced, better performing DAC that was based on a similar design.

Further, you say you want to see pics of the insides to determine if indeed they are different DACs. On one of the earlier pages you posted a link to a site where somebody has pics of the inside of a DAC with the writing on chips rubbed off. I'm not sure if this came from a "Beresford" or a "Technolink" but the fact that the power light says "Standby" instead of "Power" leads me to believe that it is Mk5 (DAC Versions). My unit is the 6/2 and it has the "Power" label. I took a pic of my unit a while back and as you can see, although similar it is definitely not the same unit. I am sure the current 6/3 looks even more different.

I hope we can start having good discussion about real pros/cons of the unit performance, reviews, people's opinions, etc rather than accusations and insults.

Peace
LL
post #64 of 81
6/20/08 at 5:20am
There was a thread on wigwam where people were helping Beresford to redesign the TC-7510 MK6/2 using the Chord, Benchmark, Wadia etc. DACs as a reference. The redesigned DAC was called the MK6/3. Alex on wigwam was heavily involved since he owns/owned quite a lot of high end stuff and did a lot of the evaluations for the various design concepts. Anyone with a wigwam account could perhaps clarify this further for us.

As for the drop shipment, I once posted a reply from Beresford on this, but I shall repeat it for the newbies. UK sales tax is 17.5%. Import tax can be as high as 30% in the UK, and even higher in places like Norway. Orders for Europe are sent from the UK in order to avoid buyers paying any additional taxes. Orders for countries outside Europe are sent from the Beresford office in Taiwan tax free. That's why on the Beresford site the prices are so different for say EU and US sales. The US price is roughly U$70 lower than the EU/UK.

But nobody is forcing anybody to buy a Beresford. I bought my first one in 2006 because I was looking for a cheap DAC with multiple digital inputs and headphone socket for use with my PC. It was then the cheapest serious DAC on the market with all those features. It is now 2008 and it is still in that number 1 position.

A lot of people with electronics and DAC knowledge across various forums and continents have helped Beresford improve the sound of the TC-7510 from its original MK1 version all the way up to the MK6/3. It is a slap in the face of all those people who spent their time listening and modifying their TC-7510 to then be accused of being a shill etc.
I think that the TC-7510 has opened up a can of worms by exposing how much all the other DACs are overpriced. So some manufacturers have sent out their trolls to attack Beresford and hope that he then goes out of business. Then they can all go back to charging their high prices and making loads of profits off our back. I for one am not going to get fooled by their tactics.
post #65 of 81
6/20/08 at 5:45am
So where does the modding to make the "technolink tc7510 (mk5)" into the "beresford tc7510 (mk6/3)" occur?
---

Another point here that confuses me though. Let us in fact assume that the technolink product is the mk5. Thus differentianting it from the current beresford mk6/3.

From the technolink product page.
Quote:
Two analogue outputs via RCA stereo sockets:
1. One variable output which the level is control by volume control in front panel,
2. One fixed line level output.
This is something I find questionable then. The pictures of the current technolink (assumed MK5) from the page also show backplate's "analog output" labeled as 1: Line(variable) and 2: Rec(Fixed).

However the Beresford TC7510 (MK5), that I used to own, did not include the feature of a variable output. The variable output feature came later, somewhere in the mk6 era. Below is a picture of the backplate of my former unit beresford tc7510 (MK5), which is different from that of the technolink tc7510 (mk5)


Summary: The technolink product is not simply just a "tc7510 (mk5)".

I've no proof, nor any intention to claim that the current technolink tc7510 is the same as the current Beresford TC7510. I'm simply curious here myself, and noticed some of the claims were not matching up.
post #66 of 81
6/20/08 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herandu View Post
I think that the TC-7510 has opened up a can of worms by exposing how much all the other DACs are overpriced. So some manufacturers have sent out their trolls to attack Beresford and hope that he then goes out of business. Then they can all go back to charging their high prices and making loads of profits off our back.


This is the kind of drivel and utter nonsense that makes the Beresford an absolute turn off.

There is no conspiracy against Beresford. Apogee, Lavry, and Benchmark aren't out to troll Beresford on audio forums. Beresford is NOT taking ANY of the market share away from the aforementioned companies.

There are certain DAC's that have a great value, and then there are DAC's that are incredible performers built with expensive, high end components. Hearing how the Beresford puts the heavy hitters of the DAC world to shame is an insult and turns away MANY prospective buyers. Sure, lots of people buy into the marketing of the 7510 and indeed find a good value in a budget DAC. Lots more refuse to give money to this kind of nonsense and look elsewhere. Others have upgraded to the "exposed" pricier DACs from the Beresford and have not looked back.

Whichever the case is, Beresford has brought suspicion and doubt upon itself (and rightfully so).
post #67 of 81
6/20/08 at 7:30am
Thread Starter 
I only ask simple question and never expected so many arguments. So many dealer agents here pretending to be "honorable" impartial members makes me very suspicious why they attack and make claims when they don't even own the DAC or heard it. If they had then they would be falling over each other to recommend it to everyone. Why I say so?
I ordered one last week after getting the feeling that this DAC must be very good if so many people take their time to claim it is no good when they have not owned one ever. I only got it yesterday so I am still burning it in.


I have only Linn system to compare. I stopped counting after I passed $20K spending on it. So excuse if you have tried Beresford on far more expensive system than me. I am just poor fish monger who looks after his money.



I wanted the Beresford to help me improve my SB3 after I read on Beresford website that it can make my SB3 sound far better. Nobody else makes that claim so I wanted to see if it is true. I can send DAC back if I cannot hear anything better. I am still burning in DAC but results so far is here.

Beresford DAC against SB3 - Beresford makes SB3 come to life by very big margin. I no good with explaining and writing small details but difference is like night and day. Beresford removes like a curtain from the sound. And bass and treble are now very close to when I play same record on CD.
That is what I wanted the Beresford for and I am happy to say it is even better than I expected. I am glad I did not believe the bad mouths against the Beresford. Otherwise I would have spent a lot of money on another DAC and perhaps get same pleasure as spending far less on Beresford.

Beresford against Linn CD player - Linn is better. But Linn cost more than 30 times the Beresford. But it is not 30 times better. How do I put cry smiley here? Because I am disappointed that I spent so much money on high end name and system and then find that cheap DAC that costs less than my cables is so good.

My advise to anyone wanting to buy a DAC is to stop reading posts from people who tell you that you should not buy this or that make unless there are breakdown slow delivery or other problems with the goods. You should listen for yourself. Maybe then you can find out like me that it is not how much you spend but how much you get for your money. I read many forums that said how good MK6.3 is and I am happy that I put my trust in many posters who have good reputation on their own forums and who recommended the Beresford. And I never had to mention that I have a very expensive Linn system. I am sure if I had then people would have recommended something in $2K bracket. Now I know that all the claims that beresford is highend beater are absolutely true.

Thank you all from a very happy Beresford/Linn/SB3 owner
post #68 of 81
6/20/08 at 8:40am
Some raw facts from my and my friends' aural experience:

Stock TC7510 Mk6/3 is able to improve systems based on $1000 CD players, even containing tubes on their outputs.

Modified $400-500 CD player kicks Beresford's ass easily, showing at least two class difference. Slight mods applied to the DAC might shorten the distance between the devices but they're still in different leagues.

Heavy, thorough modification of the Beresford TC7510 Mk6/3 might make the DAC equally interesting sounding as my modded Technics but the coherence and refinement is still on the CDP's side. Some sonic components like soundstage width might however get even more impressive on the DAC.
post #69 of 81
6/20/08 at 10:26am
^^Two somewhat reasonable posts concerning this DAC. WOW, what is this thread coming too?
post #70 of 81
6/20/08 at 12:28pm
I doubt anyone really questions whether or not the DAC is up to the job, I think most of the backlash against Beresford/Technolink is due to marketing claims, unsavory forum practice (both for and against - I think the negativity puts a lot of people off as much as the Beresford fanboys, to use a Herandu term). It may be a good performer and at a low price point. It also may not be a great upgrade for a mid to higher end system, and it may be a marked improvement over a lower end CD player. If you have a lousy system, it may be worthwhile to invest in one. A DAC can be a pretty subtle improvement, so again...it may just be a matter of synergy. I make no claim either way regarding a Beresford, as I have not heard one, but I know folks who have, that would rate it "ok". I would imagine if it works well in DC's Linn system, it must be decent, and if he (or anyone else) likes theirs, than they can consider it money well spent either way.
post #71 of 81
6/20/08 at 12:36pm
It is amazing how many threads are devoted to bashing Beresford. It is almost like people with more expensive DACs are threatened by it. As an example:

"Hearing how the Beresford puts the heavy hitters of the DAC world to shame is an insult and turns away MANY prospective buyers."

If someone thinks it sounds better why is it an insult? People are not entitled to their opinions? Do you say the same thing when someone posts that their $30 T-amp compares to amps 100 times the price? I guess Sonic Impact Technologies has a lot of people on their payroll? Heck, they charge 5 times more for their Super T-amp with the same chip as the $30 model....

Anyway, I have a Beresford MKIII and it is being used in my office system and I couldn't be happier. If he is making a profit on the units, I would not be surprised. Sheesh! I have read threads with fanboys on just about every component/headphone/speaker you can name. If Beresford has some enthusiatic customers, for some reason people think they are on his payroll.. Seems to be a bit of a double standard... Who really has the agenda? Bereford used to have a money back guarantee (not sure if this is still the case), so at least if I hated it, I could send it back. What is the return policy of HIFI500 with their Stello DAC? I guess I am out of luck if I don't like it?
post #72 of 81
6/20/08 at 12:54pm
Yeah, agreed with tiger...and no, as much as I love my Senns, Denons, Etymotics, Oritek, and Little Dot, sadly, I am not paid by any of them, lol.

They all made money off of me, and I'm fine with that...I got what I paid for, and am happy with all my components. Obviously, since I kept them
post #73 of 81
6/20/08 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakfastchef View Post
One day I hope to demo a more sophisticated (i.e. expensive) DAC to see if there is a huge difference in sound quality. If there is, the Beresford goes up for sale.
I find that the "point of diminishing returns" theory holds especially true with DACs. It would be foolish for someone with an unlimited budget to limit themselves to a $150 DAC when they can afford "the best" However when working with a tight budget you'll get a lot more bang for your buck by getting a Beresford and spending the money saved towards new speakers, amp, etc. What matters is how it sounds and not how much it costs. I don't see why a DAC(any DAC) needs to cost a fortune. It's just a DAC not a 1000W, DSP, 7.1, 100lb, behemoth surround receiver with a million inputs/outputs on the back.
post #74 of 81
6/21/08 at 7:46am
I got one on wednesday S/H for £80. I have to say that in all my years of Hi-Fi this is the best money I have ever spent on an upgrade.

I had my cans on my head for a full eight hours. Listening to some music actually brought tears to my eyes and I ain't cried for many moons. The separation of instruments, smoothness and overall balance was truly outstanding. Be it MP3 or FLAC.

My housemate gave me his old Dacmagic II a while ago after reading up on DACS and personally I thought it was pants, very dull, analogue out on my sound card trounced it in every single way. This put me into a state of mind why I should even bother with them, but now I am glad I did.

I can't see how you can get better than the Beresford without spending a LOT more money. Saying that the DACtitis bug might hit now.
post #75 of 81
6/21/08 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn&cough View Post
I find that the "point of diminishing returns" theory holds especially true with DACs. It would be foolish for someone with an unlimited budget to limit themselves to a $150 DAC when they can afford "the best" However when working with a tight budget you'll get a lot more bang for your buck by getting a Beresford and spending the money saved towards new speakers, amp, etc. What matters is how it sounds and not how much it costs. I don't see why a DAC(any DAC) needs to cost a fortune. It's just a DAC not a 1000W, DSP, 7.1, 100lb, behemoth surround receiver with a million inputs/outputs on the back.
I owned the Beresford and have been considering switching back to it from the Keces 151. Similar quality IMO and the multiple input/output was real nice.
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