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Graphic Equalizers

post #1 of 109
Thread Starter 
I may get flamed for this

but can you use Graphic Equalizers when you use headphones with an amp or is this a no no when using headphone amps ?

Tony
post #2 of 109
If it sounds good, do it
post #3 of 109
Distortion comes first to my mind.

second...Why buy Amp then? Just Pre-Amp the song from the Equalizer.

The Amps purpose is to eliminate the requirement of any Sound EQ.


Hmm what headphones u using with EQ?
post #4 of 109
Yes, simply feed the source into the EQ, and the EQ-outs to the headamp.

And, yes, if you like the sound then by all means make it so.
post #5 of 109

By All Means...

Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus95 View Post
I may get flamed for this

but can you use Graphic Equalizers when you use headphones with an amp or is this a no no when using headphone amps ?

Tony
By all means... use one... if it will help you taylor the sound to your preference - its far, far more practical and cost-effective than "rolling" every other component in your signal path, until you achieve "your sound."

As far as "distortion" - you don't need to be overly concerned about distortion. You do want to find one, which adds no noise, or "abnormal artifacts." And... you may want to consider a "sound processor," rather than an "equalizer" - such as the Aphex 204 Aural Exciter, which is generally more satisfying and effective, with no noise.

APHEX Systems 204 Aural Exciter® - Optical Big Bottom®

With regard to "distortion" - every component in the signal path (and their respective assembly components) from the mikes in the recording studio to your headphones adds some "sonic effect" to the sound, or "distortion" to the sound (other than THD) (e.g. mixers, recording devices, sources, amps, phones, cables, opamps, tubes, caps, diodes, resistors, etc.). You just need to decide whether you want to use one, and how you want to achieve "your sound."

Though, it is possible you could realize just a little less clarity, because of the added length to the signal path... and... if you can achieve your sound with out an equalizer, or sound processor, you may be more pleased. Of course the higher the quality of the equalizer / sound processor - the greater the clarity, and the less the noise, and THD.

I found the Aphex 204, especially effective to brighten the HD650s, and remove their "veil."
post #6 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 View Post
Distortion comes first to my mind.

second...Why buy Amp then? Just Pre-Amp the song from the Equalizer.

The Amps purpose is to eliminate the requirement of any Sound EQ.


Hmm what headphones u using with EQ?
Ahhhhhhlhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do we come up with these things? The purpose of an amplifier is to amplify the line level signal to listening levels. It is, ideally, supposed to do that transparently, so what comes out is just a louder version of what went in. The purpose of equalization is to change the signal to taste, before it is amplified. They have exactly the opposite purpose!

OK...I feel better now. Use EQ if you like. Analog eq will, theoretically, degrade the signal because it simply runs it through another rather complex device in the chain (though I doubt you'll ever hear it). Digital moves the volume values of zeros and ones around before they actually enter the signal path. Better. No signal degradation at all, unless you believe in audible jitter, in which case we should talk.

Tim
post #7 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
By all means... use one... if it will help you taylor the sound to your preference - its far, far more practical and cost-effective than "rolling" every other component in your signal path, until you achieve "your sound."

As far as "distortion" - you don't need to be overly concerned about distortion. You do want to find one, which adds no noise, or "abnormal artifacts." And... you may want to consider a "sound processor," rather than an "equalizer" - such as the Aphex 204 Aural Exciter, which is generally more satisfying and effective, with no noise.

APHEX Systems 204 Aural Exciter® - Optical Big Bottom®

With regard to "distortion" - every component in the signal path (and their respective assembly components) from the mikes in the recording studio to your headphones adds some "sonic effect" to the sound, or "distortion" to the sound (other than THD) (e.g. mixers, recording devices, sources, amps, phones, cables, opamps, tubes, caps, diodes, resistors, etc.). You just need to decide whether you want to use one, and how you want to achieve "your sound."

Though, it is possible you could realize just a little less clarity, because of the added length to the signal path... and... if you can achieve your sound with out an equalizer, or sound processor, you may be more pleased. Of course the higher the quality of the equalizer / sound processor - the greater the clarity, and the less the noise, and THD.

I found the Aphex 204, especially effective to brighten the HD650s, and remove their "veil."
thanks for that info it was very helpful, when you looked at a DSP was there any others that you looked at that may be a bit more compact.

Tony
post #8 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfarney View Post
Ahhhhhhlhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do we come up with these things? The purpose of an amplifier is to amplify the line level signal to listening levels. It is, ideally, supposed to do that transparently, so what comes out is just a louder version of what went in. The purpose of equalization is to change the signal to taste, before it is amplified. They have exactly the opposite purpose!

OK...I feel better now. Use EQ if you like. Analog eq will, theoretically, degrade the signal because it simply runs it through another rather complex device in the chain (though I doubt you'll ever hear it). Digital moves the volume values of zeros and ones around before they actually enter the signal path. Better. No signal degradation at all, unless you believe in audible jitter, in which case we should talk.

Tim

Doesnt Amps also improve the Soundstage? Atleast thats what i ve heard.

Yes EQ doesnt increase sound level but there is a PreAmp feature in lot of softwares like Mp3Gain which increases the Gain of the song but only for Low Impedance headpones upto 64 Ohm i think.

Graphic Equalizers is what i ve been using for more than 10 yrs in all Sources...and i think when u have great pair of headphones then u No longer feel like using it.
post #9 of 109
Thread Starter 
post #10 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 View Post
Doesnt Amps also improve the Soundstage? Atleast thats what i ve heard.

Yes EQ doesnt increase sound level but there is a PreAmp feature in lot of softwares like Mp3Gain which increases the Gain of the song but only for Low Impedance headpones upto 64 Ohm i think.

Graphic Equalizers is what i ve been using for more than 10 yrs in all Sources...and i think when u have great pair of headphones then u No longer feel like using it.
The gain of an mp3 has nothing to do with headphone impedance.

EQs are used to tailor the sound to the listener's preference. If you have headphones that have a perfect frequency response to your ears, then the EQ isn't needed. If you have headphones that reproduce sound well but have a naturally skewed frequency response, EQ is the way to fix it.

I've found a lot of people here seem to want to EQ their sound without using an EQ, with such nonsense as bassy amps and such.
post #11 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 View Post
Doesnt Amps also improve the Soundstage? Atleast thats what i ve heard.

Yes EQ doesnt increase sound level but there is a PreAmp feature in lot of softwares like Mp3Gain which increases the Gain of the song but only for Low Impedance headpones upto 64 Ohm i think.

Graphic Equalizers is what i ve been using for more than 10 yrs in all Sources...and i think when u have great pair of headphones then u No longer feel like using it.
Nocturnal - sorry about last night's over-dramatic response. Rough evening. There are a couple of questions here:

Soundstage - I'm not sure what this has to do with eq, but, sound stage is a function of two things -- the panning of instruments and voices in the mix (their placement left to right) and the relative volumes of instruments and voices in the mix. It all happens in the recording studio and the idea, often forwarded here and on other audiophile boards, that electronic equipment can somehow improve the sound stage is just wrong. Audio systems can only do what they do, present the information in the recording. The only component in a system that can affect sound stage dramatically is speakers. The effect that electronic components have on imaging (the thing speakers do that creates the sound stage) is small and the differences between competent components in this regard are even smaller.

With a good pair of phones, you certainly don't need eq to compensate for the room, which is one way eq is commonly used. It can still be really useful, though, particularly in this day and age of bad mastering.

Tim
post #12 of 109

No...

Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus95 View Post
thanks for that info it was very helpful, when you looked at a DSP was there any others that you looked at that may be a bit more compact.

Tony
I didn't do a lot of research re: the options - since the Aphex had such great reviews, and such a long, and successful history in the "music and recording industry."

And... of course... it was a true bargain - at about $175-$200.

Of course... the "deciding factor" for me... was the fact that "GreatDane" had successfully used it for the same purpose - to clear up/brighten up the HD650s, which was my main objective. He highly recommended it.

It is a relatively "compact" unit - about 1 1/4" H x 5" deep x 20" long (or thereabouts) - compared to similar EQs and SPs.
post #13 of 109
After trying a cheap Behringer 31-band EQ (bad build quality) I decided to look into a different type of processor for use with my headphone rig and that was when I came across the Aphex 204. For me it's much easier to use and is more effective for simple "spicing up".

Using a 31-band EQ is great if you're trying to tweak speakers using an analyzer but I could never decide on a single setting for headphone use...I was constantly fooling with it.

Alesis makes a cool 2-channel 1/3-octave digital graphic equalizer, the DEQ230

For a less expensive, more traditional 31-band EQ my choice is the dbx231
post #14 of 109
Thread Starter 
so really then if all i want to do is to tailor my headphones i am best to use the Aphex 204
post #15 of 109
Thread Starter 
i see that Behringer do the SX3040 which is a bit cheaper but what is it like compared to the Aphex 204 ?

Tony
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