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Dual 1218 turntable has weak rotation

post #1 of 27
5/31/08 at 1:57pm
Thread Starter 
Hey vinyl guys, I've been given a Dual / United Audio 1218 turntable for potential repair and I'm seeking advice. The major issue is that its rotation is weak, and seems to be getting weaker every time; at this point, it needs a starting push to rotate at all.

I understand that this is an idler-wheel drive system, and that the easiest way to check to see what's going on would be to remove the platter (as it says in the manual for the 1219 from Vinyl Engine), but I'm having extreme difficulty taking it off. It seems I need a special tool in order to pry out the center piece, which seems to be wedged in there pretty well.

There are some other mechanical issues, but I'm wondering: is it more likely to be a bad belt / worn rubber idler wheel, or the motor itself? If it's the motor, I'm guessing it's not worth the cost of replacement.
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post #2 of 27
6/1/08 at 3:28am
Seems that if it is getting noticeably worse each time, I'd vote for the motor. Unless the idler wheel has a rubber covering that is disintegrating really fast!

If the motor is going, then the belt is also very likely to need replacement.

Can you post some photos? Specifically this center piece you speak of. My old Dual did take a bit to take apart, but I just needed the right sized screwdriver and the right angle to pop that ring thing off.

Let's get a look at the motor first. They could be lots cheaper now than they originaly were. Who knows?! I repaired an Onkyo DX-7500 CD player a few years back. The spindle motor was only $50. I say only...but that still was the only thing wrong as the laser had many more years left on it.
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post #3 of 27
6/1/08 at 7:50am
Thread Starter 
Heheh, we'll see, I want to make sure I'm not too out of my depth. The underside of this thing looks monstrously complicated. All of the hardware mechanisms are amazing but a little scary.

Pictures:

Turntable with cover removed


Mat removed with center spindle still on


Center spindle removed, shows metal piece inset (top-most lip)


Close-up from a slightly different angle, showing metal piece inside other metal piece


I've heard that there might be a special tool for prying out this center piece. Whatever method I use, it will take a high amount of force and leverage; using small screwdrivers didn't work.
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post #4 of 27
6/1/08 at 9:32am
There is no belt. There is only an idler wheel, and the rubber on
the idler wheel is toast.

You have to get the clip off. Once you see someone else do it
then you will consider it easy. One way is to use a sharp needle
nose pliers to spread out the clip from the inside
and insert something slim and
sharp at the other end, then lift up and pull. Hopefully it will
not launch itself across the room to a place you will never find it.
But really the clip is completely unnecessary.

spinning the clip around to where the open area of the shaft is
may make it easier to grab and lift from there.
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post #5 of 27
6/1/08 at 9:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore View Post
You have to get the clip off. Once you see someone else do it
then you will consider it easy. One way is to use a sharp needle
nose pliers to spread out the clip from the inside
and insert something slim and
sharp at the other end, then lift up and pull. Hopefully it will
not launch itself across the room to a place you will never find it.
But really the clip is completely unnecessary.
Yeah, I wish someone had a video posted. I read the plier trick on another site but haven't been able to get any leverage that way (though I might be doing it wrong). But I'll keep trying...

I could use an on-site Dual expert... Other problems: speed selector will not move from "33" and the Start/Stop switch is broken so the table just turns on when it's plugged in. But regardless, these are secondary to getting the turntable spinning properly.

I tried pulling on the "C clip" as hard as I could while also pushing down the button in the bottom, but nothing budged.

Underside of Dual 1218


Frozen speed selector switch
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post #6 of 27
6/1/08 at 11:19am
I know there's a bunch of people around here that mod those old duals, but audiokarma is the best place to get help for vintage stuff in general. Check out the turntables forum.
Turntables & Tape - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
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post #7 of 27
6/1/08 at 11:24am
I usually use a small, strong screwdriver for that. However, I second AK. They know what is up more than I do. I have only done this six or seven times. There are guys on there who currently own more than twice that many Duals.
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post #8 of 27
6/1/08 at 12:15pm
Thread Starter 
Just registered for AudioKarma, and I plan to start a thread as soon as I'm added to the forum. I've seen a few threads there about fixing the 1200 series, so I'm eager to ask about it.

LPGear has a 1218 idler wheel for sale and it's $89.95 plus shipping. If that turns out to be the problem, it may be cheaper to just buy another turntable.
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post #9 of 27
6/1/08 at 12:52pm
The speed switch moves the idler wheel up and down the
stepped shaft of the motor. Likely needs to be taken apart and
lubricated. As you switch from speed to speed it backs the
idler wheel away from the motor and bumps it up or down.

$90 for the idler wheel is very silly but you may be stuck if rubber
rejuvinator does not work.

Fact is this is a really awful turntable. Lousy wow and flutter due
to idler wheel, miserable tonearm... Good item to practice on.
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post #10 of 27
6/1/08 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore View Post
The speed switch moves the idler wheel up and down the
stepped shaft of the motor. Likely needs to be taken apart and
lubricated. As you switch from speed to speed it backs the
idler wheel away from the motor and bumps it up or down.

$90 for the idler wheel is very silly but you may be stuck if rubber
rejuvinator does not work.

Fact is this is a really awful turntable. Lousy wow and flutter due
to idler wheel, miserable tonearm... Good item to practice on.
I love Dual turntables and, at the same time, disagree with nothing you said. They are terrible. Beautiful yes. Terrible and unreliable yes. And they don't play well with Grado. And the tonearm is a vinyl eater - totally waiting to get reamed about this one, but I have seen the long-term effects of the 1229 tonearm and it is not pretty.
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post #11 of 27
6/1/08 at 1:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniperlater View Post
I love Dual turntables and, at the same time, disagree with nothing you said. They are terrible. Beautiful yes. Terrible and unreliable yes. And they don't play well with Grado. And the tonearm is a vinyl eater - totally waiting to get reamed about this one, but I have seen the long-term effects of the 1229 tonearm and it is not pretty.
What makes it a vinyl eater? I thought that Dual tonearms were on the lighter side (but I might be totally wrong).

Also, does the Dual 1218 take standard cartridges? It appears to have a Shure M91ED in at the moment, which I'm guessing is stock.
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post #12 of 27
6/1/08 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitesymphony View Post
What makes it a vinyl eater? I thought that Dual tonearms were on the lighter side (but I might be totally wrong).

Also, does the Dual 1218 take standard cartridges? It appears to have a Shure M91ED in at the moment, which I'm guessing is stock.
I thought that too, but then I saw the aftermath of twenty years of careful playing from a Dual 1229 and the vinyl was murdered. I have records that I have played for 15 years from tables from Technics 1200 to Yamaha yp211 to a hundred other kinds of tables and most of it still plays like new.

Duals take a standard-mount cartridge. It likes some more than others, but Shures are good. In fact, there is a pretty good one out there now mpx something or other that is a nice value at like $60.

Don't get me wrong, I love Duals. I just don't think they are a place to end up if you really want the best sound and long life for your vinyl.
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post #13 of 27
6/1/08 at 2:49pm
Your best bet for getting the idler wheel resurfaced...Ed Crockett
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post #14 of 27
6/1/08 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekbmn View Post
Your best bet for getting the idler wheel resurfaced...Ed Crockett
That's the ticket! Quite a bargain.
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post #15 of 27
6/1/08 at 4:00pm
Thread Starter 
Taking off the platter was easy after I understood which part the C-clip was.

For future reference: C-clip super-simple removal technique


Platter off


Idler wheel


Strangely enough, after I removed the platter, the speed selector unfroze. When I plugged it in, the 45 and 78 RPM positions worked but not 33 RPM. A few more back-and-forth movements of the speed selector and 33 RPM began to work (though I haven't done a speed check). Everything now works with the platter back on...

Is there any sort of maintenance I should do while it's open? How does the idler wheel look?
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