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Top 10 MP3 Players (SQ ONLY) - Page 6

post #76 of 153
6/12/08 at 11:48am
This was prob asked alreay but: If using the headphone out un-amped on the Touch is the sq really THAT BAD? I have a D2 so I'm basing other players against that. I had a NWZ-S618 and that was fantastic also. 1 other thing - I'm definitely NOT an audiophile but I can tell the difference between good and terrible SQ. Please, any response on this is greatly appreciated.
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post #77 of 153
6/12/08 at 12:41pm
Apple has a well-specific output jack (cold and metallic) and its LOD is much better and is more sounding than most people like to hear (warmer), and finally most players are very close (except Apple and noname DAP for the mostly bad).
Now in use of an headamp with a line out, it will sounding better than the original amping DAP (with jack) cause by the LOD is supposed to be flat and the sound take the "headamp sounding".
Using a headamp by the jack, Cowon D2 for example, will be for some, less good, for other, better, because the D2's amp will serve as a preamp.
This gives many different opinions and subjective depending on the tastes of each person.
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post #78 of 153
6/12/08 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KromaXamorK View Post
Apple has a well-specific output jack (cold and metallic) and its LOD is much better and is more sounding than most people like to hear (warmer), and finally most players are very close (except Apple and noname DAP for the mostly bad).
Now in use of an headamp with a line out, it will sounding better than the original amping DAP (with jack) cause by the LOD is supposed to be flat and the sound take the "headamp sounding".
Using a headamp by the jack, Cowon D2 for example, will be for some, less good, for other, better, because the D2's amp will serve as a preamp.
This gives many different opinions and subjective depending on the tastes of each person.
KromaXamorK,

Nice to see you there.

Many Apple's players sound (sounded ?) "cold" because of their output capacitor.
Capacity is too small.
It results in an high-pass filter => less bass => "cold" sound.

The smaller your earphones/headphones impedance is, the bigger bass roll-off is.
On the opposite, if you use an high impedance headphone, they doesn't sound "cold" at all.

lele
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post #79 of 153
6/12/08 at 1:13pm
It's true.^^
The problem with a high impedance headphone is that European's iPod have a too low volume.
For example, with a HFI-780 (agressive signature in bass respond) which correctly drive by an iPod, in SQ flat, it sounds damn good in bass respond by opposition with a Karma in SQ flat too.
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post #80 of 153
6/12/08 at 5:44pm
Anybody tried that Kenwood thing?
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post #81 of 153
6/12/08 at 7:08pm
SQ is very good on Kenwood (for the HD60GD9) but with IEM, there are too much hiss.
With full headphone, for me is the better than all I have (X5 and Karma for first).
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post #82 of 153
6/12/08 at 11:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KromaXamorK View Post
Apple has a well-specific output jack (cold and metallic) and its LOD is much better and is more sounding than most people like to hear (warmer), and finally most players are very close (except Apple and noname DAP for the mostly bad).
Now in use of an headamp with a line out, it will sounding better than the original amping DAP (with jack) cause by the LOD is supposed to be flat and the sound take the "headamp sounding".
Using a headamp by the jack, Cowon D2 for example, will be for some, less good, for other, better, because the D2's amp will serve as a preamp.
This gives many different opinions and subjective depending on the tastes of each person.
So to sum it all up: The Touch sounds better than most if using a line out w/amp BUT not so hot through the headphone out? Aw, damn. I really want a Touch BUT don't really feel like going amped as of yet (max of my HP is 40ohm).
PS: Thanks for giving me some info to clear my way to making a decision between a Zune80 (Volume is WAY to low on the Zunes) and going back to the POD (don't give a hoot about opinions - just want good SQ - and tired of people saying they suck for stupid reasons).
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post #83 of 153
6/13/08 at 12:54am
In fact most people who wants to use a headamp prefer to take a player that has a "true" line out (Apple, Karma, X5, iRiver iHP-1XX) and not just an output jack .
Of course it can be done but it is better that the DAP is already very good for first, unamped.

A headamp is not only for increase volume or drive a high impedance headphone but also to enhance the sound signature and quality.
Lot of people use a headamp with IEM which have, in majority, a very low impedance.
It seems that you can have a line out on Zune with a dock, but i'm not sure.

PS : But be careful you can't use a line out directly connected with a headphone because the volume is too loud and no control on it.
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post #84 of 153
6/13/08 at 1:08am
Between the 2 which is the better through the HP out: Touch OR zune then?
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post #85 of 153
6/13/08 at 1:17am
Unfortunately I never compared this 2, so I don't give an opinion.
However by the jack out many testimonies are in favour of Zune.
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post #86 of 153
6/13/08 at 4:49am
I've a touch and a Zune 80, and the Zune is definitely my choice. The touch is pretty reasonable, but the Zune is much richer and even. I don't even put music on my touch anymore.
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post #87 of 153
6/13/08 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KromaXamorK View Post
In fact most people who wants to use a headamp prefer to take a player that has a "true" line out (Apple, Karma, X5, iRiver iHP-1XX) and not just an output jack .
Of course it can be done but it is better that the DAP is already very good for first, unamped.

A headamp is not only for increase volume or drive a high impedance headphone but also to enhance the sound signature and quality.
Lot of people use a headamp with IEM which have, in majority, a very low impedance.
It seems that you can have a line out on Zune with a dock, but i'm not sure.

PS : But be careful you can't use a line out directly connected with a headphone because the volume is too loud and no control on it.
I perfectly agree.

In fact, in most cases, the headphone amp' increases the bandwidth => more basses with low impedance earphones/headphones, and/or at higher volumes.

It could also reduce hiss, 'cause you can set the player at a volume with which signal-to-noise (SNR) ratio is better.
For example, on my Sony NWZ-A818 the SNR is ~73dB at my normal playing volume (12/30), while it reaches ~95dB at maximum volume => less hiss.
Obviously headphone amp' merges in its own noise...

----------------

In a certain manner, an higher volume also increase the bandwidth.
More precisely sensation changes with volume : higher volume => more basses / basses' impact.

But I'm already really scared "seeing" at an how high volume the greatest part listen to music, even with high impedance headphone and "unamped" player.
Ear loss danger !
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post #88 of 153
6/13/08 at 10:07am
So would you guys recommend a Sony A810/820 over a cowon D2?
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post #89 of 153
6/13/08 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodoman View Post
So would you guys recommend a Sony A810/820 over a cowon D2?
Hello,

I never listened to Cowon iAudio D2.
I plan to buy one soon to give it a try.
Cowon iAudio X5L still remains "my reference player".

I've been using a Sony NWZ-A818 for a week.
Output is almost hiss-free; it's noticeable with sensitive IEMs. (Less hiss than my X5L, at my normal playing volume.)
It's well balanced, with a very subtle bass emphasis. RMAA confirms listening impressions : no bass roll-off, even with low impedance earphones (Ultimate Ears Super.Fi 5 Pro - 21ohms), but a slight bas emphasis (about 1dB @20Hz).
However, I feel bass lacks something : impact, tightness. A small tweak in the service menu (modifying bass gain and filter corner frequency) improved it a bit. But it is still not perfect! I'm really not an expert; maybe there is DAC or output characteristics that could explain that...
Details level is good, but not impressive. Voices sound natural, not in background, in spite of the (subtle) bass emphasis.

I have to listen to it much more to confirm these impressions, it's above all a matter of taste.

lele

PS : Tested with Ultimate Ears Super.Fi 5 Pro, Beyer Dynamic DT880.
(Yes, very different sounding earphones/headphones, but each one has its own use.)
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post #90 of 153
6/13/08 at 12:57pm
I've had a S618 (DOA) and a I have a D2. Personally, I preferred my D2 as it just seemed to have a more "Welcoming" sound, despite what some may say. The new Sony players are all excellent sounding but, for some reason, I seem to get fatigued when I listened to them. After a short period of time (1hr maybe) it starts to feel & sound claustrophobic (hope that's right). Sony has a great sound stage but the D2 seems more "open" to me. And this is despite the fact that I hear the difference in the bass between the 2 also - the lows being better and soooo clear on the Sony's. I feel the Sony players over-emphasize the low freqs and this causes the others to be overwhelmed a bit. Beats the ear drums just a bit too much. I think the mids are a bit lacking though. Sony makes stellar players but IMO the D2 is "Slightly" better.

PS: Guess I'm just gonna' go get a Touch or settle for a refurb 60gb iPod 5g w/video. The 5g sounds pretty good (had 1 but my 20yo got it stolen) and I may play w/RockBox and see how it goes.
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