Is Balanced Worth It? - Page 3

Sure mate

This first image shows the frequency response and distortion (2nd and 3rd harmonic) of the balanced HD600



Pay attention speciall to the 1-3KHz area.

Next one is the frequency response and distortion graphs of the single ended HD600



And the next one is the mix of the both previous graphs to make comparisons easier:



These graphs were taken using a dummy ear placed at the earpads level, with a dummy ear canal at whose end there was the microphone, an Earthworks ultraflat-response. The engineer used Apogee hardware into a Mac computer and used specific software (can't recall the name of it). The test signal (single-end) was fed into the RPX-100 amplifier to use its balanced or single ended outputs.

Rgrds

Hello,
I'm new.
If I bought a Little Dot MKV, would it be worth upgrading to balanced, if physically possible? In your opinion?
I want to sell my current chinese tube nightmare for a solid state dual mono headphone amp (that's what the MKV is), but making the outputs balanced, xlr, would be at a cost. I don't even know if balanced cables are available for senn 650s outside of Headroom. I know Cardas have the bits but I can't make that stuff myself.
Soon I will have the Benz Micro Lukaschek PP1 phono stage, and I want a good headphone amp to make the most of it.
Very new, me, though. I only know a few brands of headphone amp.
dave

It is pretty tough to make a generalization on what you are asking for. Balanced vs. single ended depending on source, cans, and the different topologies, plus the various price points that amps single ended and balanced come in, there really is no possible way someone could give you a one fits all answer. If you held me at gun point, I would generally say with a big IME that I would rather go with the higher quality hi end singled ended amp than a lower quality mid fi balanced amp. Again I would only make that statement if held at gunpoint for sure, so I am sorry if that really doesn't help. I know for sure I could never quantify at what price point does the switch/transition make sense. In fact, to turn your world upside down, there are some single ended amps in the lower price bracket say 400-800 that I would take over balanced amps that cost 2000+. Not to say its not worth it or that you can't hear a difference, personally I just never really fell for the balanced hype. I have spent years building my single ended rig to the point where it sings music to me, my source is truly balanced if I want to go that route but then I need another set of IC's, have to balance my preexisting cans, I would rather take the time and money spent on music and to listen to it honestly.

To be of further help, I think we all could use what kind of budget your looking at, and what your ideas are for your source and cans. For example, for a budget of less than a $1000 for everything, I think you would be better off getting a badass single ended rig. The cheapest balanced amp I can think of would be the headroom balanced desktop for $900 (?) or $1000 I think. Factor in costs to balance your cans and source.

The Headroom Balanced Desktop starts at $998, so just adding shipping, that pushes it over $1000. I suppose you could commission a balanced Ckk2III or a balanced Dynalo, but you'd still be left with a reterm job and a source issue.

Thanks much, Cool_Torpedo. That really helps alot. Not just the FR change, but also the distortion change surrounding it.

PFKMan23, I'm not convinced source is a big deal. You can always add a transformer to the build to convert single ended to differential as a stop gap measure, or a bridge tied load build of the Dynalo.

That's what I would do. Transformer plus balanced amp is relatively cheap, for DIY if you don't go overboard with the best of the best. Balanced dynalo, ckkiii, pimeta or mini3 (n_maher did), seems reasonably cheap to see if it impresses upon a person a worthy change or not. In some cases, the transformers would cost just as much for the good ones. Nikongod says there are some that are reasonably cheap, but I didn't follow up to see which ones. I do know of the Jensen, which gets good marks, IIRC.

Also my dilemma (long, make coffee...)

I have only recently shifted my focus from speakers to earphones, as I realized that 95% of the time I listen to music by myself. The speakers do get used occasionally with friends, mostly w/ movie DVDs. The stuff I have is not shlock and will do, but the earphones are a quantum-leap better in satisfying sound when I am listening to music.

I have a Mapletree Audio upgraded Ear+, which I've enjoyed for some years. It piggybacks off my main system. A couple of years ago I bought a pair of Senn 600s and found that I enjoyed them more than the RS-1s I also have.
The MAD amp I have did not seem to have sufficient guts to drive them as well as the grados. I connected it to the analog bypass circuit of my Rotel 1098 pre-pro. Feeding that is a Pioneer Universal player feeding a Monarchy Audio upsampler feeding an Audionote dac feeding a Musical Fidelity X10-D V3. With a kludge like that you'd think it'd sound awful, but in fact it sounds very good. Still, I thought, initially, to hunt for an amp upgrade.

I heard about balanced earphones, and I was curious, especially reading about "soundstage width and depth", a noticable, for me, deficiency of my phones. I read everything I could find, on and off this site, and had about made up my mind to do the headroom balance desktop package (dac included and some AKGs).

Then someone on this site suggested I forget balanced and get better cables for the Senns. I didnt forget balanced but I did buy a set of balanced equinox cables, along with the adapter to enable me to used them with my single ended amp.

They are now fully broken in and it almost...no...it feels like I bought a new amp. The sound is nothing short of stunning whether with cds or with
dvds set to PCM or downsampled to PCM in the Pioneer. Still, having dropped a lot of cash over the years on upgrades, I've never questioned the maxim that good can always be bettered. And I still want to hear balanced.

The questions I'm asking myself now are: If I plug those phones into a Headroom balanced amp will it sound a whole lot better? Will I miss some of the tube qualities but be so dazzled by the balanced effects that I'll love it?
Should I go for a tube balanced amp, since I like tubes? Would I like that better.

Obviously the only person who can answer these questions for me is me. I live in the mideast and will only get to the states for about 6 weeks this summer, and will be limited to Minneapolis and San Francisco for equal amounts of time (Not, unfortunately, Montana). If anybody know of any dealerships in Mpls. or (more likely) San Franciso where I might hear any stuff, I'd appreciate the info. I will make a decision before too long and it would be good to have some experience.

Thanks for listening.

1) My guess is yes... the HR balanced is a beast. The sound is just effortlessly authoritative.

2) I have no idea about tubes, but balanced is a noticeable upgrade.

3) Tube balanced amps are ridiculously expensive, but my guess is that you can't get much better than that.

In my mind it is, especially if you're going to go hog wild with an expensive amp. I see a lot of people's issues with their rigs being that they have reference level amps, but then rather ordinary sources. If I'm going to spend a couple thousand on a source, it better meet certain requirements, including being truly differential in it's design. Of course you seem to be looking at more introductory level things so I'm sure you'll be fine.

Source is easy for differential. Almost all DAC chips are differential out, so spending a couple of thousand or not shouldn't really be relevant. But, that's not what this thread is asking.

You seem to have lost the context of the thread, somehow.

For the record, I'm not asking. I asked Cool_Torpedo for the charts, and not about the amps that the OP is discussing.

The issue being discussed is in regards to a differential amp, and likely having a single ended source. This happens when a person is looking into differential. There's no point adding a differential source to feed a single ended amp and getting headphones reterminated. Where would you plug them? No, driving them directly off the source is not great.

It's definitely better to have a single ended to differential conversion at the feed of the amp for a few hundred dollars. It would be 2 transformers connecting the RCA jacks to the amp, and feeding the differential amp. Of course, there would be jacks for a differential source, if and when that happens. The bonus is that you can then use the amp to sample various sources and know that your amp remains in differential mode.

It's fine to comment on people's source, but do realize that not everyone plonks down money to change the entire system all at once. You may just be getting a snap shot. That's especially relevant if a person is asking whether or not to get a differential amp.

Awesome. I'm curious to see if you can take different frequency reponses of balanced HD650, in case you'd lay your hands again on them.

It's not very likely, none of my mates is using them, and I didn't like them as much as to buy a pair.

Considering the reported sound differences using the HD650 balanced or SE, I suppose they'd also measure differently, maybe at a larger extent than the HD600.

Rgrds

Cool_torpedo, thanks for posting those measurements. Interesting result. Would I be correct in assuming that the balanced and unbalanced measurements were taken on the same headphone?