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Pass Labs D1 Clone kit

post #1 of 14
5/9/08 at 11:04am
Thread Starter 
The D1 has been out of production for years and the original Designer/manufacturer has provided tech support to the project.


Anyone else here building this:

diyAudio Forums - NP D1 DAC clone with enhancement


The D1 originally sold for thousands of dollars, I have heard one and never since heard digital sound so good. It is considered by many the finest DAC ever made. Don't know if the clone is as good but the whole kit + a case and the not included parts is only setting me back $500.
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post #2 of 14
5/9/08 at 11:41am
I had looked at it and a couple of the D1 I/V solutions before, but never did anything about them. This looks to have many options in terms of DAC chips, receivers (PMD100, CS8414 was it, SMC4397 something... is that an ASRC?), etc. Are you planning on building this to match the original D1 DAC, and what did the original use?
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post #3 of 14
5/9/08 at 11:49am
Thread Starter 
There are a lot of upgrades to the original design. Its really not a clone.

The biggest difference is the analog stage is JFET instead of mofset, there is also a buffer in this version so you don't have to use a preamp like on the original. The power supply is discrete (for analog) ala Borbeley. I am building mine with the modern 9001 reciever but no SRC (not a believer.) Also am using the PMD100 digital filter because it is the best I have heard. This thing really has a lot of potential.
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post #4 of 14
5/9/08 at 1:31pm
You could just buy the D1 output stage and hook it up to any multibit DAC.

The DAC-AH would be one
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post #5 of 14
5/9/08 at 2:01pm
Thread Starter 
No, you see a D1 stage has very little if any PSSR, it will not be effective without a very special power supply.

And could list several reasons not to waste your time with a DAC-AH.

If you're into NOS distortion this isn't the DAC for you.
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post #6 of 14
5/9/08 at 2:05pm
Then buy a special power supply to go with it.
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post #7 of 14
5/27/08 at 2:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post
The D1 has been out of production for years and the original Designer/manufacturer has provided tech support to the project.
Hi Regal,

The above is incorrect. Pass Labs provides no support for the NP D1V3 and do not endorse the project in any way. I've had some short and to the point but very helpful replies from the designer to a couple of specific queries I had about the VCXO and re-clocking circuit which I mentioned in my build thread at diyaudio.

Pass Labs used to make service manuals available to the DIY community on the basis they were for use of diyers only and they were not to be used in commercial kits. The D1 manual actually has the disclaimer "This is not intended as a project and will not be supported as such. Do not call." in bold red type across the top. Because chinese cloners began selling knock off's of Pass Products based on the manuals, they have been pulled from the Pass Labs site. Some have expressed the opinion that Spencer's D1V3 came a little too close to crossing the line by selling board and parts.

The "upgrades" are better described as changes that reflect Spencer's personal preferences - he has a fondness for Borbley so the I/V uses borbely regs - and cost cutting in respect of the VCXO. Still it's a pretty good DAC overall. Definitely the best thing I've had in my system.

The original mosfet D1 I/V used 1000uf filter caps and 7815/7915 regs in the power supply and was still regarded as a very good sounding DAC if reviews are any guide. What makes you conclude there is almost no PSSR?

cheers
Paul
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post #8 of 14
5/27/08 at 3:39am
I've been debating building a D1 I/V and using a Sigma22 as the PSU for it.

I debate a lot of things, and usually do none of them.
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post #9 of 14
5/27/08 at 5:08am
Because his wallet is screaming. ;-)
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post #10 of 14
5/27/08 at 9:30am
Thread Starter 
spzkt, I didn't mean Pass officially supported it only that they have been supporting Spencer on DIYaudio, see the thread in the Pass forum. I mentioned it because Head-fi frowns on clones.

This DAC is by far the best design in the DIY world that I have seen. You have the best digital filter ever made (PMD100), arguably the best DAC chip (PCM63-KY) and without a doubt one of the best analog stages.

I recieved my board and now understand why this isn't a popular build. The PCB is so crammed with parts its near impossible to decipher.
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post #11 of 14
5/27/08 at 10:21am
Interesting project I think the later version is more refined compare to the original MOFET design.

Hey, where can we get some PCB for this?
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post #12 of 14
6/10/08 at 3:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post
spzkt, I didn't mean Pass officially supported it only that they have been supporting Spencer on DIYaudio, see the thread in the Pass forum. I mentioned it because Head-fi frowns on clones.

This DAC is by far the best design in the DIY world that I have seen. You have the best digital filter ever made (PMD100), arguably the best DAC chip (PCM63-KY) and without a doubt one of the best analog stages.

I recieved my board and now understand why this isn't a popular build. The PCB is so crammed with parts its near impossible to decipher.
Regal,

While I have posted a build thread of the D1V3 to the Pass forum it in no way indicates any support or approval from Nelson Pass or Pass Labs.

I know this for a fact because there were some particularly pointed comments from several members about whether Spencer was offering a commercial kit or not were made when the thread first started. Commercial kits violate Nelson Pass's understand with the diy community that his IP is strictly for diy use and no profit is to be made from his designs.

I raised the objections with the Chief Mod at DiyAudio because I was surprised at the reaction and as a result there was a significant amount of discussion behind the scenes with Nelson Pass regarding the D1V3. The final outcome was that it was agreed I could continue with the build thread but that this didn't constitute approval from NP.

Bottom line is the D1V3 build thread presence in the Pass Labs forum doesn't indicate any kind of endorsement or approval of the D1V3 or Spencer from Nelson Pass or Pass Labs.

cheers
Paul
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post #13 of 14
6/10/08 at 4:02am
Thread Starter 
didn't know the politics. Where there is smoke there is fire, but just makes me think this is "something" or people wouldn't get concerned.
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post #14 of 14
6/10/08 at 6:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post
didn't know the politics. Where there is smoke there is fire, but just makes me think this is "something" or people wouldn't get concerned.
Regal,

don't sweat it, there are people with strong opinions but who are ultimately irrelevant to the decision that was made. If the D1V3 had been a problem in terms of violating Nelson's diy rules that would have been dealt with when the issue was raised. All I'm saying is that the existence of the thread does not mean Spencer has endorsement or support from Pass Labs.

cheers
Paul
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