Head-Fi.org › Forums › Meets, Get-Togethers, Factory Tours › Head-Fi Meet Impressions, Trade Show Reports, Factory Tours › CanJam 08: Team Florida Invites All Their Friends...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

CanJam 08: Team Florida Invites All Their Friends... - Page 16  

post #226 of 664
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhd812 View Post
Finally home....

I like Florida but i could never live there besides a vacation house or something. the Weather at the meet was seriously perfect but other times i have gone to Florida the humidity was horrible.
Being close to the beach helped the weather around the hotel quite a bit. All us smokers need to give a solid round of applause to Tyrion for the location. 5 miles inland and we would have been taking a shower after every trip outside. Hardly what Mike *wants* our appreciation for, but just pile it on with all the other appreciation he deserves.
post #227 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post
Next year is going to be in DC, and the florida team is going to help me organize it.
Bummer, I guess that means I am not going. At least Florida recognizes my concealed carry permit, but DC doesn't even respect the 2nd amendment right to have a gun in your own home. (I've had a permit for 14 years and the streets don't run with blood yet, guns don't kill people, it's peeps that do it).
post #228 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post
I'd think venue space would be more expensive in vegas, but I was making that up, I would be happy to do it, but nothing was discussed.
Maybe we could do it in Colorado, and Blutarsky and I can work with ASR on it. Hmmm...
post #229 of 664
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
Did they give a price for the Smyth system?

Sounds very interesting and they are only an hour away from me. I may have to go see them.

Can it add spatial cues to a 2-channel signal?
The system they're putting out this summer/fall is mainly intended for professional use, and will cost around $3000 for the processing box and the Stax system. They bundle with the Stax system for some control of headphone newbies deciding to plug in their iBuds or other cheap headphones and not really benefiting from the system, in turn spreading bad word of mouth or reviews. With any good headphone system it WILL work. No worries on the cost of this pro system because the Smyth guys are planning to liscense the technology to larger companies for use in receivers and surround sound processors. I asked about the big companies reducing functionality and was assured that they were keeping control of some major standards in the implimentation. I'll warn you right now that if this technology gets bought out it will quite probably go nowhere. If it's done right, this will be huge, and probably a nice boost to headphone AND traditional hi-fi businesses.

I'm not sure the entire process of how this thing is implimented has been described here, so let me lay it out. I never actually went through this whole process but witnessed several others.

You sit in a chair and insert two small earbud microphones. A few test tones are played through your surround system and then a series of calibration tones start to play from each speaker. Instructions are given to turn you head to the left, center, and right (looking directly at each speaker), and measurements are taken from each position. After that you wear the headphones over the microphones, and a few tones are emitted that measure the response of the headphones themselves. It's a complicated process that involves the computer deciding what has been added or taken away from each calibration tone and calculating a new process to emulate those changes. In the end the headphones end up sounding as close as makes no difference to the original surround sound setup. Again this is my impression without actually hearing it in the full implimentation (the room was busy and I'm an impatient person I guess). Forgive me for going off the solid impressions of others but it seemed to be a consensus that this thing works like nobody's business.

The reason you take the measurements in three different head positions: there is a tracking device on top of the headphone and on top of the TV that tracks your head movements and allows the system to model a surround emulation that is responsive to change. The end result is that you can move your head and hear exactly what you'd hear when looking around with the surround system. If you have a large TV and look across the screen you won't feel like the speakers are following you around, something that takes away a huge bit of realism from something like Dolby Headphone or similar technologies.

The overall recorded simulation can be stored on a flash card in the player and loaded into other devices. Also you can use "presets" but they are not modeled to your own ear or headphone, so they will be of lesser quality than your own calibration. The better the surround system, the better your headphone emulation is going to sound.

For the final bit of realism they add a bass shaker platform or similar device, to emulate a subwoofer's rumble. Optional accessory that isn't bundled with the upcoming pro system but worth the investment. I myself use a bass shaker on my computer chair.

I didn't ask them about modeling high end 2 channel rigs, but the functionality should be there.

This thing represents as I said before a lot of potential for future headphone customers, and a renaissance in the hi-fi business as a whole. ALL high end audio shops should be looking to find an implementation of this software to sell, complete with recommended headphone systems. They should also set up a high end surround room, if they don't already have one, and do a setup service for new customers and charge outside customers for use of the room. In the gaming, movie junky, and music communities this thing has potential like nothing I've ever seen. I wish all the best to Smyth.
post #230 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWoundsTime View Post
No worries on the cost of this pro system because the Smyth guys are planning to liscense the technology to larger companies for use in receivers and surround sound processors.
I wonder what can be licensed / subject to patent here. Measuring HRTFs and using a DSP to filter some input signal with it is not news I believe (not trying to be condescending!). The equalizing out of the headphone / pinna reflections is also not revolutionary. The one thing special here is that the HRTFs are personalized rather than approximate set coming from a dummy head.
What amazes me is that they got it to sound plausible! The acoustic signature of a room with reflections + head in the full audio range is a tiny bit complex. A slight movement of the head during the calibration will mess up the measurement is it will become hypersentitive to head movements as you go up in frequency. I am amazed they got something robust. It also seems very very cheap for what it does (you need quite a bit of electronics to do any kind of serious room acoustics processing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWoundsTime View Post
They bundle with the Stax system for some control of headphone newbies deciding to plug in their iBuds or other cheap headphones and not really benefiting from the system, in turn spreading bad word of mouth or reviews. With any good headphone system it WILL work.
I guess your earbud wouldn't appreciate a 40dB boost at 20Hz because the filter is compensating for the poor bass response of your cans .

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWoundsTime View Post
I'm not sure the entire process of how this thing is implimented has been described here, so let me lay it out. I never actually went through this whole process but witnessed several others.
Thank you for describing the process, it did answer my questions. They're basically measuring HRTFs, equalizing out the response of the headphones (but not that of the room or speakers) and altering them as you rotate your head around. I am amazed they actually can make it work (with head tracking) by recording so few angles and relying on a guys head that's never quite steady during each measurement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWoundsTime View Post
The overall recorded simulation can be stored on a flash card in the player and loaded into other devices. Also you can use "presets" but they are not modeled to your own ear or headphone, so they will be of lesser quality than your own calibration. The better the surround system, the better your headphone emulation is going to sound.
Time to find an anechoic chamber and borrow a very very nice high end loudpeaker (only need 1, not even a pair!).
post #231 of 664
curious...were there any panel discussions or presentations?
i'd be interested to know what was discussed and what transpired.
post #232 of 664
There were a few panel discussions, but the subject matter isn't appropriate for a family forum.
post #233 of 664


I can't quite get a finger on this...but I'm thinking Baywatch reruns. Somebody help my addled brain...
post #234 of 664
SiBurning and NightWoundsTime did a fantastic job of explaning the process here... you have no idea how hard it was for me to describe to my girlfriend exactly how cool this system was while actually explaining what it was without simply resorting to something dumb like "trust me, it was rad".

In case it wasn't clear earlier, yes, the headphones are worn over the ear-mics after the speakers have been calibrated and the process repeated to ensure the headphones are also equalized. This means full-size headphones only (and presumably works best with circumaural?).

Definitely my vote for best of show and I wish the folks at Smyth all the best in getting this technology out there. It clearly took immense amounts of work both on the psychoacoustic and technical fronts and believe me, the results are absolutely astounding.

Anyone who didn't get a chance to experience this missed out and should do whatever they can to remedy this at some point.

[EDIT] Oh, and for the record, it's pronounced Smith.

[EDIT 2] Allow me to make a correction - it seems this system will indeed work with earphones. Edwood was able to audition the system with his Triple-Fis (see here)
post #235 of 664
but why are you crying?
post #236 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
but why are you crying?
I'd say it's because DD sacked me a good one, but to be truthful (and everyone in attendance can attest to this), I am just a weepy drinker.
post #237 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlendaleViper View Post
I'd say it's because DD sacked me a good one, but to be truthful (and everyone in attendance can attest to this), I am just a weepy drinker.
"Weep! For not all tears are an evil."
-Gandalf (LOTR-ROTK-The Grey Havens)
post #238 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by antonyfirst View Post
Hey Grawk,

What dod you think of the UE11 generics?
Thank you!
I'm not grawk, but I liked them enough to sell a source I'm quite fond of at the meet in order to afford them if I don't win the raffle. I could only think that if they sounded this good with the universal tips, how much better they might sound custom. I heard the UE10s with the universal tips as well, and the presentation was much flatter, 100% wonderful, but after putting on the 11s, I knew I wanted them. I wondered if there would be too much bass, and there's certainly no lack, but it's bass done right.

Edwood, are you reading? I'm going to be sending you a couple ideas soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWoundsTime View Post
EDIT: This is all Boomana (Vicki) posting under my name. Not a big deal just needed to point that out.

Same, and these will be my next purchase (the customs), if I don't win the raffle. Figuring out what all to sell now to get those and the Blue Hawaii SE.

Impressions will have to wait. I got home a couple of hours ago after basically a four-day party, NightWoundsTime is here, hanging out until the Radiohead concert tonight, and my house is filled with boxes and a mass of cds everywhere.

I just want to thank tyrion, who basically put this meet together single-handedly, with stray help from the rest of us. His wife and kids even handled the registration table for both days, and I'm sure they had more interesting things to do. Thanks, Mike!

I also want to add that the people who came, vendors and members alike, were a very serious group, willing to stay up until the early hours of the morning for the sake of headphones. Now, that's dedication.

Now it is nap time.
Well, damnit, Matt. If you weren't logged on to my computer. Sorry. Oh, that annoying screen problem has been fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
but why are you crying?
The viperman was crying because he had too leave early and miss a whole day. He made up for that by staying up all Saturday night.

I finally got more than 3 hrs sleep last night and am trying to catch up with this thread, but probably won't post organized thoughts for a day or two. Again, it was wonderful meeting everyone!
post #239 of 664
Vicki,
The UE-11's definitely have more bass than my 10's (some have claimed that is has too much bass, like the E500's).
I find my UE-10's to be a "lesser of all evils" headphone. In other words, all components have perks and flaws, and taking everything into consideration, the 10's would be my choice in the "if you could bring only one headphone to a desert island" decision.
Of course it's not fair of me, because I can only describe the 11's, hearing them in a non-custom configuration, but that being the case, I would still pick the 10's.

BTW- Mark my words. Do not sell the ESW-9's to fund the 10's/11's. Find another component, but the AT's are a keeper for life. They are unique, sound wonderful (especially in the portable realm), made of quality materials, will probably have a short production stint, and you will most likely have seller's remorse somewhere down the line.
IMHO, they are one of the "keepers for life". It's just not worth selling them.
YMMV, but I doubt it
post #240 of 664


Thanks Nate (and others) for taking good pictures of swt61's gorgeous work. My camera didn't do the stand justice, and it's really beautiful. I'm also pretty sure he did the panels on philodox's amp, which looks much better in person than I've seen in any pic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post
An epic party, in fact, as measured by that arrival of cops. No, not rent-a-cops, real cops. I think we're gonna have to be a little more careful next time, so I pre-volunteer my room next time around for partying. Ah, til 3 am, anyway. (I know I'll have to put a limit on it or I won;t be showing up til noon the next day.)
Tyll's the best! Not only did he bring a whole room of gear and booze (damn good gear and booze), he opened up his room Saturday night at what time? 1:00? 2:00AM? for a bunch of folks who'd already demonstrated that they probably shouldn't be anywhere but in bed. He also wins the award for the best singing sheep and goats, but some stories are best left unsaid.

Re gear, the audiophile desktop system is wonderful. That's all. If I had to spend all day in front of a computer, I'd be figuring out how to get this. It's sort of the perfect form and function combo for audiophiles: a good looking system designed so that you can choose the parts that all work together and sit nicely on a deskstop with headphones AND speakers within perfect reach. AND it sounds amazing. Once seated, the imaging with the Harbeths (HLP3ES-4?) was surprisingly good. Tyll cranked the Amphion Ions for some interesting...uh...dancing in the wee hours. Since many of us have spent more than the cost of the whole system on headphones alone, I really think more folks should be throwing their attention this direction if they spend a lot of time in front of a computer. I loved it.

I also spent a good deal of time with the K701s and the max amp, confirming my opinion that anyone who thinks the 701s are thin, lifeless, lacking bass, etc. have not heard them properly amped.

Just also want to thank Mikhail and Todd for opening up their rooms waayyy late. Looking at tubes and pictures of even more tubes on his laptop (Mikhail is a confirmed tube and ancient keyboard geek) in Mikhail's room late Sunday was fun. Also, talking to his wonderful wife, Galina, who designs the SP amp cases (I didn't know that), and seems to have a similar affection for rare tubes, was even better.

Bah. Too many good memories to type about. Actually most of the vendors came out to play and spend time just chatting with everyone. I can't think of one that wasn't interesting and/or fun. Oh, and Ray, have you bowed down and kissed the ground your wife walks on yet today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict View Post
Bummer, I guess that means I am not going. At least Florida recognizes my concealed carry permit, but DC doesn't even respect the 2nd amendment right to have a gun in your own home. (I've had a permit for 14 years and the streets don't run with blood yet, guns don't kill people, it's peeps that do it).
Huh? You won't go to a headphone meet if you can't carry and conceal a gun? Double huh! I like guns, but your need to insert that post in this thread has me casting my vote for Washington DC for the next meet! DC all the way!


Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

What's interesting is that those tube "bubbles" are designed as completely removable modules, and can be voiced differently depending on tube combos. I completely enjoyed the Odyssey with the 650s. I didn't spend much time with the Sonic (which uses similar tubes), but preferred sq of the Odyssey, though liked the one-box solution and cool tube window of the other.

I'm going to have to come back with installments I guess. There was plenty of gear worth noting.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
This thread is locked  
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Meets, Get-Togethers, Factory Tours › Head-Fi Meet Impressions, Trade Show Reports, Factory Tours › CanJam 08: Team Florida Invites All Their Friends...