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New Rudistor NX-03 (solid state) - Page 3

post #31 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
As one who "has no clue" - does it really make an audible / detectible difference - whether its 108db or 113db?
Hey GF2

I was wondering that too.

USG
post #32 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
Dear Member of the Trade and Rudistor dealer Sovkiller

May we assume by your silence on this issue, that what Anders and others have said has now been verified as the truth ?

"That Rudistor has overstated the specifications, even to specs that are virtually impossible."

Now that this has been established, let's move on.

USG
Dear N. Yorker (what a coincidence eh?):

Established by whom? First this has not been established, and this has not been verified by any of them, they are just especulating about something, that they have no clue about...
Second this is completelly false, Rudi have never overstated any spec, all specs in his website are measured, and all documents are in his lab, in is files, now as if we wants or not to discuss about that, and if he wants or not to show them in public, that is his prerrogative, and a right he has a manufacturer.

The same way nobody ever has asked Sony to post the messuments while they states a 350 watts per channel amp, that is rated to 250 Watts AC power consumption...

About hte Noise specs, I do not think that anybody could hear under 100dB s/n, we have even amps in the market nowdays, with 86, 90dB, and they are considered as very good...
post #33 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller View Post
About hte Noise specs, I do not think that anybody could hear under 100dB s/n, we have even amps in the market nowdays, with 86, 90dB, and they are considered as very good...
Then... if that's the case (which I kinda thought it might be)... what difference does it make... whether... the specs are stated at 105db, 108db, 113db, 115db, 120db... or whatever...

... so long as... the difference is not audible / discernable anyway.

Should I care?
post #34 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller View Post
Established by whom? First this has not been established, and this has not been verified by any of them, they are just especulating about something, that they have no clue about...
I'm not trying stir up more poop but since you're questioning credentials (or better put, dismissing other's opinions entirely) what qualifies you to debate fundamental theorems of Physics? Johnson's noise theory was established the better part of a century ago and isn't really up for debate, at least as far I know.

But I do agree that we're haggling over specs which probably don't play themselves out as differences in the real world since every amplifier is only a link in the signal-path chain.
post #35 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by n_maher View Post
I'm not trying stir up more poop but since you're questioning credentials (or better put, dismissing other's opinions entirely) what qualifies you to debate fundamental theorems of Physics? Johnson's noise theory was established the better part of a century ago and isn't really up for debate, at least as far I know.

But I do agree that we're haggling over specs which probably don't play themselves out as differences in the real world since every amplifier is only a link in the signal-path chain.
FYI I was even unsubscripted from this thread until it popped up in the first page again...and reading I found another bunch of absurd comments again.

Sorry but I do not care a single bit, who trust me or not, you can choose simply not to do it, or simply ignore my opinions and keep on trusting the ones who are speculating, to me, honestly, that is completely irrelevant.

The only thing that bothers me, is that using this argument, the are questioning the integrity of an honest professional, and a manufacturer that the only thing that have done, is bring more joyment into this hobby, and that IMO, is more capable than them, as we all have seen/heard his work, and we have never seen theirs at all (well we have seen one, the destructive intentions only) BTW how many times you have seen Rudi posting here, not even to argue, even less to post against any other manufacturer/member, and I know that he does not agree with many of them...That my friend is called social skills, and ethics, that a few selected members here, seems to ignore...

BTW I'm only dismissing the speculations about topologies they are not familiar with at all, and they have never seen before in from of them, not measured...
Now if they get the amp, open it, and measure it, and post here what they found, that is perfectly OK with me. But the way they have choosen is not very scientific neither....sorry but if that is acceptable for you, for me it is not....

Again, just go a read the Perreaux specs I listed above, do you trust them?

So Perreaux is also ignoring the Johnson's noise theory, right? Sorry but I have seen the curve traced and measured for those amps in front of me, in paper, Perreaux measure each amp before packing them...
post #36 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
Dear Member of the Trade and Rudistor dealer Sovkiller

May we assume by your silence on this issue, that what Anders and others have said has now been verified as the truth ?

"That Rudistor has overstated the specifications, even to specs that are virtually impossible."

Now that this has been established, let's move on.

USG
No.
There are at least two other examples given in this thread that counter Anders statement.
I have no reason yet to disqualify Rudistor's specifications.
post #37 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
Then... if that's the case (which I kinda thought it might be)... what difference does it make... whether... the specs are stated at 105db, 108db, 113db, 115db, 120db... or whatever...

... so long as... the difference is not audible / discernable anyway.

Should I care?
That's not the point. The point is whether it's misrepresentation or not.

There's already a distressing lack of detailed specs and knowledge of their merits here. The last thing we need is randomly declared ones.
post #38 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
Then... if that's the case (which I kinda thought it might be)... what difference does it make... whether... the specs are stated at 105db, 108db, 113db, 115db, 120db... or whatever...

... so long as... the difference is not audible / discernable anyway.

Should I care?
Sometimes this specs are a result of the topology, parts selection, but you probably are not looking into get a particular value, for a designer, to get 100, 118, or 106 is the same, you are looking for other aspecs of the sound.

The design by itself has maybe a range, and then using better parts, better matching, or maybe making using some tweaks to get other parameters as you wish you drop it unintentionally, and later on while you measure it, those are the numbers you get, and you post them as the specs...

Honestly I do not think that Rudi cares too much if it is 98, 100 or 113 as all of them are acceptable, and are IMO excelent values, so I do not see any reason to state one value in place of another, just "to fool a customer" as you probably will not hear any difference...
post #39 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller View Post
The only thing that bothers me, is that using this argument, the are questioning the integrity of an honest professional, and a manufacturer that the only thing that have done, is bring more joyment into this hobby, and that IMO, is more capable than them, as we all have seen/heard his work, and we have never seen theirs at all (well we have seen one, the destructive intentions only) BTW how many times you have seen Rudi posting here, not even to argue, even less to post against any other manufacturer/member, and I know that he does not agree with many of them...That my friend is called social skills, and ethics, that a few selected members here, seems to ignore...
You're all peons, succumb to the corporate entities!
Is that what you're trying to say? That consumers are inferior?
post #40 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller View Post

FYI all the instruments used in all the measurements of the specs are tested an calibrated by third party labs, those specs published in Europe, are corroborated, as required by the European Community. All documents must be filed, and have to be in order always, they are in Rudi's files, if any member has any doubt, even while he does not like to discuss his designs, as any other manufacturer, just contact him for an explanation, instead of begin another mud war here...please....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller View Post

Established by whom?
"By by third party labs, those specs published in Europe, are corroborated, as required by the European Community." as you stated above,

But could you direct us to where they were " published in Europe" so we may see what you're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller View Post

Second this is completelly false, Rudi have never overstated any spec...

Then what Roam posted is False?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller View Post

...they are just especulating ...
anyone caught especulating around here, is gonna have to clean it up...

Regarding measurements: I'm not so sure you have to be able to hear a measurement to discuss whether it's accuracte or not.

USG
post #41 of 105
FYI, you can purchase the RPX-33 for $1000 here
post #42 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roam View Post
Johnson noise, also known as thermal noise. It's dependant on bandwidth, resistance, and temperature, it's a law of physics and there's no way around it. For an amplifier with a 10k input impedance and 100kHz bandwidth, the lowest theoretically possible noise floor at room temperature is -108dB. Rudistor claims -113dB which is a blatant lie and flat out impossible unless the amplifier is sitting in a vat of liquid nitrogen.

The data cited by Roam is a calculation performed using I am assuming the published bandwidth, impedance, and also using ambient temperature (I did not check Rudistor site for specs). Topology is irrelevant, as this calculation will provide the lowest possible noise floor. You can of course do things with topology, etc. to worsen this; you cannot get any better than this.

Change the bandwidth or input impedance or both and the possible SNR will vary accordingly.

The point being, if you are going to bother publishing specs, make them viable...
post #43 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
"By by third party labs, those specs published in Europe, are corroborated, as required by the European Community." as you stated above,

But could you direct us to where they were " published in Europe" so we may see what you're talking about.

Those specs are the ones listed on the website, the ones you are trying to argue, the website is an Italian website, and Itlay as far as I know, is still in Europe right? So the specs were published in Europe, no? Sorry but I do not understand what you are asking, you already know that specs, or is just to argue for the sake of.....
post #44 of 105
Arguing against a verified physical law.... Now that's funny...
post #45 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymesgalore View Post
Arguing against a verified physical law.... Now that's funny...
Verified physical laws, need to be applied consequently and correctly, taking all variables into consideration for the particular case...

Anyway...Sorry I will end this argument here right now...Honestly, it makes no sense for us to keep on arguing this way. Simply the ones that began the argument, and are trying always to discredit Rudistor reputation (or the manufacturer on their choice, that BTW are usually the same guys) have no clear interest in any of our products at all, it is just like arguing for the sake off, (or maybe to feed their egos, and make them feel what they would like to be in real life, and that probably have failed miserably to be) With no evidence, and no clue of how this amp was designed, or how the measurements were taken, or what the topology is, as usual.

Rudi answered a couple of questions, of the less offensive posts, and they still insist in keep on arguing. And what is funny is that regardless of what these answers would have been, they will never had the intention of changing their minds, and will still keep on thinking the same way, so it is a total waste of time, a vicious circle...

As a matter of fact, the ones really interested in our amps, our real loyal customers for years, rarely ask about these numbers, as mainly they have heard our amps, and they are just interested in what they heard and found in our amps, that makes them enjoy the music. We have sold quite a few amps by now, and in most cases the owners are perfectly happy with them, and never change them, and while they do, must of the times is just to upgrade to another of our other amps. So it makes no sense to keep on wasting time with this "selected elite" of scientists, that believe that know it all, trying to judge a book by the cover, as Tom said once, that could be better used simply enjoying a new album...or even watching the controversies Obama/Clinton on TV...

For the ones really interested in our amps, I really applogize for the degeneration of this thread, even while it was out of our hands, and not in the sirit of Head-Fi at all, and as usual, we will be more that happy to assist you, and answer all your questions, just email us if you are interested in any of our products with your concerns...

Sorry the mailman is knocking, he is bringing me a couple of new CDs now, so I have to go, the RPX33-MKII/Edition 9 combo is waiting for them anxiously...
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