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How Low is Low Enough? Subwoofer Questions... - Page 2

post #16 of 33
bass is sort of a tricky thing i think. 40 hz (iirc), for instance, is already enough to shake most things in your room, and it is around this range that most bass in music occurs (right?). if you have a good response to 30 hz, wouldn't that be adequate for most purposes?

while we're on the subject of quality though, what's the best subwoofer that can dig down to around 30 hz that costs $300-400? not opposed to going used. the AV-123 X-Sub is a promising contendor, but i'm concerned about that port noise, and the notion of an 8" subwoofer for that price seems somewhat implausible to me.

this is for use in a bedroom/small living room.
post #17 of 33
Thread Starter 
Is the AV-123 considered a "musical" sub?

After reading tons of reviews on the web, I'm narrowing my criteria to Musical first, deep second. Since my space is so small, (and I'll be so close to the sub), I don't think I'll need to dip down into the mid-low twenties.
post #18 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnomaly View Post
bass is sort of a tricky thing i think. 40 hz (iirc), for instance, is already enough to shake most things in your room, and it is around this range that most bass in music occurs (right?). if you have a good response to 30 hz, wouldn't that be adequate for most purposes?.
I agree actually. There is some music with content below 30Hz (namely pipe organs), but getting down to 30Hz is very satisfying for music alone.
post #19 of 33
For music, I have always preferred a sealed sub. I'm using a small SVS SB12+ (you can sometimes find them as B-stock for $600) which is a 12" sub in a 14" box. I'm using them with B&W monitors for most music listening and the occasional movie even with trememdously good results.

Have you considered the Martin Logan Dynamo? It's not as expensive as the Abyss, but should be very satisfying in your application. You could also probably pick it up for around $600 after negotiation. I've seen used ones around $450-500
post #20 of 33
Klipsch - 12" 650W Powered Subwoofer - SUB-12

Seems like this would do the trick. Freq response compliments your speakers and with the 12 inch driver it will provide enough percussion to FEEL realistic and the down firing unit should be easy to place.

I have a couple of Velodynes in the house and they have been great. Here is one for ya.

Velodyne | DPS-12 12" 400 Watts Forward Firing | DPS12
Front firing port on this unit is nice too, might be able to get it closer to the wall than your typical rear port subs.
New Velodyne DPS12 DPS 12 SUBWOOFER 12" - eBay (item 270221526789 end time May-19-08 11:41:35 PDT)
post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonFreeman View Post
Klipsch - 12" 650W Powered Subwoofer - SUB-12

Seems like this would do the trick. Freq response compliments your speakers and with the 12 inch driver it will provide enough percussion to FEEL realistic and the down firing unit should be easy to place.
Yeah, I don't know about that one. This reviewer didn't think the RW12 (the higher end version of the Sub 12) was that good
Sound and Vision Magazine - Shootout: Five Mid-Price Subwoofers
post #22 of 33
There is a glorious DIY opportunity here, "The Legend of El Pipe-O": Pass D.I.Y. Spkrs: El Pipe-O: part1

"Funny things happen when your speakers are flat to 13 Hz. You have to be careful about your tone arm, your windows, your neighbors, and your bowels."
post #23 of 33
I just thought those two were worth a look. Im sure someone disagrees but Ive had good luck with Velodyne. I also thought a larger driver would better compliment his already fantastic speakers. I dont think an 8 or 10 inch unit will have that much to add.
post #24 of 33
If you have any local circuit city's nearby, try calling them and asking if they have any velodyne vrp-1200's. It's a 12" sub and should be on clearance. I got mine new for US$172 and I think display models go for around $145. It goes down to around 27 Hz. For your budget (I'm assuming $500ish) though, you could probably do better.

I'm new to the whole speaker/sub scene so I have nothing to compare it to, but compared to my sennheiser hd-25's, I'd say the velodyne's bass is a little slower.

And to sort of answer a previous question, sub placement makes a big difference. Corners are your friend. I hear a nice way to find out where to place your sub is to put your sub where you would normally sit and walk around various parts of your room and listen to it. The area where you notice the best bass response is where you should place your sub. I didn't bother doing this since there was only one place that I could place my sub in. When I walk around the house, the bass is definitely much more prominent near walls and in between hallways.
post #25 of 33
Thread Starter 
Well,

I bit the bullet and bought a used Definitive ProSub 100tl. It is rated very well, noted by some for it's musicality. At 250watts it can get down to 20Hz. Not sure if I'll be able to take advantage of that in my 300 sqft. space, but it's nice to know it's there.

Speaking of placement, my options are limited. It is a work space (sculpture studio) and I have only two corners - for speakers and a sub. I was planning on building some 20" stands to raise the tweeters in my 302's to ear level (standing) and am now thinking that I could put one speaker on the sub, and build an identical box for the other speaker.

Will this work? Any problems setting a speaker on a sub?

Definitive Technology ProSub 100TL Reviews
post #26 of 33
If you plan on keeping the sub on the floor, I'm not sure your speakers will be raised high enough. My tweeters are a little bit below ear level (down to around my neck) and I notice it sounds better when I slouch and bring my ears down to the tweeters. I think at this point for me, putting my speakers on stands would be the next most cost efficient step for me.

If you're worried about the sub shaking too much for a speaker to be set on, I'll have to try it out myself and get back to you. Can't do it now, but I'll post back when I do.

Oh and that sub looks very nice I need to get away from these forums after already buying gear so I don't feel the need to audition for more equipment :P
post #27 of 33
Instinct tells me that it would be better to separate the two. Congrats, looks like a nice unit.
post #28 of 33
Thread Starter 
What if I use vibration suppresion pads between the two? I know some have mentioned that having a negative effect on the speakers performance, but my options are limited somewhat. Placing the speaker on the sub would be ideal if it will work out.

Oh, and thanks for the compliments - it helps shake of buyer's remorse!
post #29 of 33
Just be aware that Definitive's specs for a sub (claim response down to 20Hz) are nothing close to reality. I should have mentioned that before. Some vendors publish honest specs but Definitive isn't one of them. They have some of the most exaggerated specs among any major sub vendor.

Here's one example:
Supercube III
Claimed specs on their web page:
Frequency Response: 16Hz – 200Hz

Actual measurements:
-3dB point is at 46Hz! -6dB point is 28Hz

I have no idea how they could claim 16Hz bass extension

Second example:
Prosub 1000
Claimed:
Frequency Response: 18 Hz – 150 Hz

Actual:
The ProSub 1000's close-miked response, normalized to the level at 80 Hz, indicates that the lower –3-dB point is at 39 Hz and the –6-dB point is at 34 Hz.
Translation: the actual specs should read: 39-120 Hz +/-3dB ....quite a difference from the claimed specs

I doubt the sub you bought is really putting out much sound below 35Hz.

Velodyne is very honest with their specs:
Here is the Microvee I bought

Claimed:
38 - 120 Hz (+/- 3 dB)

Actual as I measured myself: http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8876/005gn3.jpg

pretty much as claimed
post #30 of 33
Thread Starter 
I figured as much, but the deal is done. At least I have 40+ reviews that tell me I won't be disappointed. Many of the reviews said they had subs rated to go down to 25Hz and having purchased the ProSub 100tl felt it went much lower.

My MA 303's get down to 35hz, so I'll give them a side-by-side test and see which goes lower. At the very least, it's rated as a very good musical sub and hopefully will free up my MA's to tackled the Mid's and High's on their own.

I'll let you know how it goes.
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