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How Low is Low Enough? Subwoofer Questions...

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
I'm currently shopping around for a sub to put with my dedicated 2-channel system.

I'm running Monitor Audio 303's and they get down to something like 37hz (if memory serves CORRECTION: it is 35hz). The bass is nice enough, but I want a lower bottom end. There are lots of well reviewed subwoofers (like Eosone RSP 910) but they don't get too low. The Eosone only gets down to 32hz, whereas others seem to average around 25hz, and a few down 21hz.

I'll be using my system in a small, 300 sqft space for music only. It'll be a mix of classical, rock, acoustic, well - everything. I like bass - I like it a lot.

If I bought a nice sub with a bottom end around 32hz, will I be missing out? Should I hold out for a deeper sub?
post #2 of 33
it's not the quantity but the quality.
post #3 of 33
The lower the sub goes, the more power it will take to drive it at a level close to flat. 32Hz is pretty doggone good. That's low enough to rattle the doors.

See ya
Steve
post #4 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
it's not the quantity but the quality.

i guess you're not a true basshead

i suppose the poster ask for both quality AND quantity. the lower the better, right?
post #5 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
it's not the quantity but the quality.
Agreed! I had some Scan-Speak 7's in my 2 channel system about 35Hz and it was the cleanest, tightest bass I had ever heard. what little I may have missed I made up in quality of the bass.

No doubt in Home Theater it has to be much lower.
post #6 of 33
I'd say get a sub that covers down to 25Hz. That will give enough foundation for any music you can throw at it. Getting below 25Hz is mainly necessary for movie watching, but that requires a very big box.

I would recommend the Martin Logan Abyss as a musical sub that can attain 25Hz with and be down only a few dB (rated _/-3dB down to 25Hz)

There is no miracle cheap small subwoofer that can do deep and loud bass, it's physics. You need hefty cabinets, drivers, amps to provide clean sound if you are looking to shake up the house. And that usually costs more
post #7 of 33
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the responses. I do want to clarify that I feel quality is paramount, but of course it's always nice to have that "theoretical" low should one need it!

So, I've got a little line-up here of subs that I'm interested in. I would love to get the MartinLogan, but it's pushing $1K! So, I have to scale it back a bit. Here is the list with specs.

Keep in mind I have a small space, so size becomes an issue. If I could find an 8" that is quality I would jump on it, 10" would be the biggest I would think I can use. Your top 3 or 4 would be great. Definite rejects would be helpful too!

---------------------------------

Definitive Technology ProSub 80
* 8" Polumer cone woofer
* 250 watt RMS amplifier
*21Hz - 150Hz frequency response

---------------------------
NHT Subwoofer- SW2si & NHT Subwoofer AMP SA-2
* 10” polypropylene woofer
* Power Output (amp): 120 watts RMS into 8 ohms, 165 watts into 4 ohms
* Response: 27Hz to 500Hz

----------------------------
Infinity PS 210
* 10"
* Power 300-wattsRMS
* Frequency response : 27Hz-150Hz

----------------------------
Polk Audio PSW10
* 10" front-firing driver
* 50-watt RMS amplifier
* Frequency response 40-160 Hz

----------------------------
Eosone RSP-910
* 10"
* Power 55W rms / 77W peak power
* Frequency Response 32Hz - 200Hz

-----------------------
Klipsch KSW 100 Synergy Series
* 8"
* 100 Watts continuous into 4 ohms
* Frequency Response: 34 -120 Hz

-------------------------
Polk Audio PSW303
* 8"
* 100 Watt Continuous (260 Watt Dynamic)
* Overall Frequency Response: 28Hz - 200Hz

-----------------------
KEF PSW2150
* 10"
* 250 Watt
* Frequency Range: 30 Hz - 140 Hz

-----------------------
CADENCE CSX-12**
* 12"
* 250 WATT
* Frequency Response: 10-120 Hz

**I threw in the 12" because of the low FR and low $$
post #8 of 33
If you want LF look up M&K offerings...


post #9 of 33
In a 300 square foot space, you aren't going to be getting any 20Hz sound anyway. The length of a soundwave at that frequency is as long as a Mack truck. You'd need a much larger room to be able to get that low. As the previous poster said, don't worry about extension. Worry about the quality. Audition the speakers and see if you like the way they sound. That's the ONLY way to choose speakers. No one can tell you which is the best. You need to hear for yourself.

See ya
Steve
post #10 of 33
Outlaw LFM2 or its cousin Hsu STF-1 should be on your list.

Hsu and Outlaw sub have all been praised for good sound quality.
post #11 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
In a 300 square foot space, you aren't going to be getting any 20Hz sound anyway.
That is a common myth. With that logic, we shouldn't ever be able to hear something even as low as 40Hz, because you'd still need a room longer than 28 feet. You can definitely get very low frequencies in small room but only in certain spots. I can assure you that I'm getting a true 20Hz signal in my room that is smaller than a mack truck
post #12 of 33
I found this post on another forum. Any truth to it?

Quote:
Post #3
I don't know how it is in this case, but there is a common misconception that a wavelength has to "fit" insida a room in order to make audible sound. That the largest room dimension should be at least a half or whatever portion of a wavelength.

This is not the case.

One can divide the frequency range in three parts:

"high" frequencies; those above the Schröder frequency (which typicaly is ~200 Hz). In this frequency range the sound field is reverberant, and there is little use in studying individual room responances since they are so many and close together.

"mid" frequencies below the Schröder frequency and above the lowest resonance of the room. For box shaped rooms, this resonance occurs when the longest dimension of the room* is half a wavelength. In this range, room resonances are often troublesome and cause an uneven frequency response. Some frequencies are emphasised and others are attenuated.

"low" frequencies, below the "mid" range. If the loudspeaker has a flat response down to DC in free space (which of course is very hypothetical), the response in an airtight room will increase by 12 dB/octave towards lower frequencies.

So, contrary to the common belief that low frequencies are hard to generate in a room, it is actually the other way around. Low frequencies are typically amplified inside a room compared to free space. The "mid" range is problematic, however, for hifi sound reproduction due to the unevenness that occurs.

*not the diagonal, but the wall-to-wall distance. For a room of 6x4x2.5 metres, this is 6 metres, and the frequency is 345/12=29 Hz.
post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdriver View Post
You can definitely get very low frequencies in small room but only in certain spots. I can assure you that I'm getting a true 20Hz signal in my room that is smaller than a mack truck
How do you determine those spots? You're going to have to bounce soundwaves off the wall. How do you get them to bounce and still maintain their original shape?

I'll check out the link you posted when I get to work.

Thanks
Steve
post #14 of 33
Thread Starter 
My space is measures 24' x 12', if that makes a difference. That being said, I'll be listening within 10" of the speakers.

Any thoughts about Eosone subs? I know they are discontinued, but I've read good reviews about them and have the opportunity to get one a good price. (the one on my list)
post #15 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
How do you determine those spots? You're going to have to bounce soundwaves off the wall. How do you get them to bounce and still maintain their original shape?
it's all quite complicated. This program will help RealTraps - ModeCalc identify room modes

But in the end, it's easy to determine by just taking measurements with a mic, test tones, and RTA software such as TrueRTA

See what they did here THX: Making the Magic Happen: Component Calibration

Lots of neat videos here RealTraps - Videos (of course, slanted toward convincing that you need to buy their product...which is probably true) to illustrate the acoustics problems and how bass behaves in rooms
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