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Review: PS Audio Power Plant Premier Power Regenerator - Page 6

post #76 of 87
I've ordered one of these. It should be here on Tuesday. I'm looking forward to seeing how it does compared to my Balanced Line Conditioner (1.5 kv). Whichever is better will get the spot of pride in my main system. The loser gets relegated to use with my bedroom system and headphone rig (Which now resides in my bedroom).
post #77 of 87

I see there has not been much activity here, but I hoe someone can answer my question. I think this or the new P5 will be my next major audio purchase. I am very happy with my system so I think I will get one before I start buying more headphones. Here is my question. Do I need to plug my computer into it for the best results. It is currently plugged into an APC ES750 UPS. I know its nothing fancy, but I feel much better with the batter backup. The actual music files are on an external drive also plugged into the UPS.

 

I would plug my 3 amps and DAC into the PS Audio. Over powering the unit is a low concern as I would never have more than one amp running at any given time. I know it is important to have the Source plugged into the PPP/P5, but I didn't know if that only meant the DAC, or also the computer, and to some further extent the external HDD. Eventually I will need to buy another one or two for my TV and surround sound equipment. That gear as not as important to me and is currently plugged into an APC H15.

 

Any help is appreciated. I would also love to hear impressions between the PPP and P5 if anyone has them.

post #78 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruBrew View Post

Any help is appreciated. I would also love to hear impressions between the PPP and P5 if anyone has them.


You definitely don't need to plug your computer into a power conditioner. The only thing the computer cares about is the quality of the 12V, 5V, and 3.3V DC lines coming out of the power supply, the quality of the AC is pretty much irrelevant. I haven't heard the P5, but I did own a PPP for awhile. The performance was decent, it did a good job at isolating the system from the effects of 2PM vs. 2AM use of the general power grid, but I found the actual improvement of the system itself to be only average. In my system the PPP was extremely dependent on the power cord connected to the wall, much more so than passive conditioners which I found surprising because I expected the opposite. Depending on the cord, the improvement ranged from almost none to fairly noticeable, but I was never blown away by it.

 

Quality control on the PPP units was also severely lacking. Mine worked for about a year if I remember correctly, and then developed the infamous "click of death". PS sent me a brand new unit for a warranty replacement which was nice of them, but I ended up just selling that and moving on to a Balanced Power Tech which I like much better. PS has since moved production back to Colorado so I would hope that the P5 units are much more reliable. I would definitely be wary of a used PPP purchase.

 

The new Power Plants are also supposed to have some improvements to the design to improve the sound, but I would still highly recommend trying some of the best passive units such as the BPT 3.5 Signature Plus, the Audience AR6-TS, and the Running Springs Dmitri. Active AC regeneration is not necessarily the best way to go.

post #79 of 87

Thanks for the suggestions. I have read about the reliability problems with the PPP, and would not buy one used. I believe the warranty is non transferable. I would the PPP or P5 B-stock to save some money. The P5 B-Stock pushes the limits of what I may be able to spend. I was thinking $1200 or so, but the P5 would be more like $2000. The BPT seems interesting. The Signature Plus is way more and has balanced isolation transformers; I have no idea what those are. The Audience AR6-TS is without second thought too much money. The Dmitri is more than I need and more than I can spend, but Running Springs does have some gear more suited for my needs and budget. 

 

I have never believed in fancy power cables, and I still don't. If the power goes through your house on cheap wire, I don't see how the last few feet make any difference. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I would never argue with what someone else thinks they hear, so I don't want to start a debate on that. If however, the power is squeaky clean from some sort of conditioner, I can see the theoretical advantage to good cable. In that case they are used to maintain the enhanced quality. 

 

Once I have a more concrete budget set I may start checking Audiogon to see whats on sale. Until then I guess I should try doing some more research on passive and active power conditioners. 

 

Edit: Right now I have my Amps and DAC plugged into a Tripp Lite ISOBAR4.


Edited by TruBrew - 12/26/11 at 11:05pm
post #80 of 87

The problem I have found is that the PPP doesn't seem to control the voltage out put at 120V, it seems to creep up higher to around of 122V with my PPP. I have read that in some parts of the world the this can be a real problem with the output voltage going much higher. Also my PPP was very warm.

Anyway I traded it in (about 2 months ago) on A stock P5 new shipped from PS Audio for about $1840.

The P5 runs cool to the touch and you can set the output voltage to whatever you want, so far the output voltage has not varied, plus the read outs are much better than the PPP. The P5 also comes with a 3 year warranty, but you do have to register your new P5 with PS Audio with-in a month or so to get the 3 year warranty.

post #81 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruBrew View Post

Thanks for the suggestions. I have read about the reliability problems with the PPP, and would not buy one used. I believe the warranty is non transferable. I would the PPP or P5 B-stock to save some money. The P5 B-Stock pushes the limits of what I may be able to spend. I was thinking $1200 or so, but the P5 would be more like $2000. The BPT seems interesting. The Signature Plus is way more and has balanced isolation transformers; I have no idea what those are. The Audience AR6-TS is without second thought too much money. The Dmitri is more than I need and more than I can spend, but Running Springs does have some gear more suited for my needs and budget. 

 

I have never believed in fancy power cables, and I still don't. If the power goes through your house on cheap wire, I don't see how the last few feet make any difference. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I would never argue with what someone else thinks they hear, so I don't want to start a debate on that. If however, the power is squeaky clean from some sort of conditioner, I can see the theoretical advantage to good cable. In that case they are used to maintain the enhanced quality.

 

The BPT 3.5 Ultra is within your budget, BPT sells those for $1699 on Audiogon (though you don't get the 30 day return window if you buy at that price). Balanced transformers are the oldest (but still one of the most effective) types of power conditioning. Normal unbalanced AC has 120V on the hot line, and 0V on the neutral. That's how it should be, but there's often a lot of noise riding on the neutral line. Balanced power splits that up into 60V/60V on both lines, which provides significantly reduced line noise. The balanced units from Equi=Tech, Furman, etc all work that way, but the BPT units can be further upgraded with noise reducing caps, bybee filters, etc. That's basically the difference between the 3.5 Ultra and the SP, in the latter most of the available upgrades are standard.

 

Used Audience AR6-Ts are commonly available for around $2500. You can find standard AR6s for around $1200 and AR12s for around $1800. They definitely aren't as good as the Teflon cap versions, but they can be upgraded by the factory at any time. You may also want to consider a Hydra V-ray, which are fairly common at around $1500 or so. Running Springs are really only worth it as used buys. They aren't as common as the Audience or Shunyata conditioners but they do appear occasionally. A used Jaco would probably be the best bet in your price range. The Haley just isn't that good, and it's really overpriced at $1900 for a new one.

 

As for power cords, all I can say is try one and see what happens. I found the differences between cords (especially when used with the PPP) to be considerable. I tried it with a number of cords - the original PS Audio Statement which was dull, had a limited treble and a kind of unfocused sound overall, a Wireworld Electra which seemed to do nothing and was the worst cord overall, a Siltech SPX-30 which had a polite, refined sound, but was somewhat limited in bass response and dynamics, a Custom Power Cord Co. HCF which had a kind of odd, slightly hollow sound in the midrange, and an Electraglide Epiphany X which lacked a bit of the refinement of the Siltech, but more than made up for it with awesome dynamics and the best soundstage of any of the cords I tried with the PPP. Wiring the rest of the system with Epiphany X further improved the system, although not to the same degree as connecting the PPP to the wall with the Epiphany as opposed to a stock cord.

 

I've since moved on to Kubala-Sosna cords which are way better than any of those, though of course also considerably more expensive.
 

 


Edited by DaveBSC - 12/27/11 at 8:27am
post #82 of 87
So passive units like the BPT will help control the Voltage I assume. That is one reason I was looking at the PPP/P5. My H15 shows incoming power at around 126V which is obviously high. Another reason I want something to control the power is so I can increase the longevity of my equipment.
post #83 of 87

completely passive transformer based things cannot control the voltage.

 

The motor driven variac thing from monster was able to control the voltage, but

not very quickly, it could not respond to spikes.

 

ferroresonant transformers are passive and control the voltage by making

square waves out of the sine waves, you definitely DO NOT want one of

these for audio.

post #84 of 87

Furman also makes voltage stabilizers, you might want to check out the SPR-20i. If I remember correctly, the Monster unit wasn't that good (shocker), and was suitable for source devices only


Edited by DaveBSC - 12/28/11 at 6:26am
post #85 of 87

UPDATE:  My PPP failed over a year ago and PS Audio has been completely incompetent in their repair efforts.

 

It started with the well known "click of death" symptom I noticed one morning.  The clicking is the relay that bypasses the AC generator circuit when a fault is detected.  A quick call to PS audio confirmed that this was a situation that required repair and would be covered under warranty.   They paid shipping costs for me to send in the unit for repair and then I waited 3+ months to get it back.  Somehow my PPP got lost in their repair depot due to some personnel changes.   OK, I'm pretty understanding, so no big deal, stuff happens.  I used the time to listen to my system using "dirty" power.  During this time I decided that the PPP wasn't actually that beneficial (if at all) and I would sell it after I got it back from the shop.   Unfortunately when I got it back, it failed after 72 hours.  

 

After some apologetic emails from PS Audio, my PPP was again on it's way for repair.  This time it was back within a week and again it failed after a few days. At this point I was pretty angry at simply having my time wasted.   A third call and apologies from PS Audio and the unit was sent for repair again.   I received it after a week and this time it was in bad shape.   There were scuffs on the case, a loose screw rolling around inside the chassis, and the front display panel was badly scratched as if it was cleaned with some abrasive material.  I didn't even risk plugging it in at this point.  There is no way I would be able to sell this unit in good conscience so I decided to just give up on PS Audio and scrap it for parts.

 

Me and a friend took it apart and was absolutely fascinated to see what was inside.  Most of the electronic components were fairly sub-par quality wise - not what you'd expect in an expensive piece of equipment.  We found a screw rolling around inside, several very loose nuts on wire terminals including the chassis ground.  Several of the solder connections were hanging on by a single strand of wire and the soldering work looked like it was done by someone clearly very inexperienced.  In all it was a complete disaster.  There were none of the high quality components usually found in high end electronics.  We were really hoping to salvage some good parts from the unit, but most went to the shop recycle bin.

 

In conclusion, the PPP is a product that was clearly designed to look impressive, with very little attention devoted to the internal electronics.   Three failed repair attempts by PS audio lead me to believe that this company has absolutely no credibility in the world of high end audio.

post #86 of 87

I've heard enough comments now about PPP reliability to not touch it with a barge pole, but the problems seem to start when using it with power amps. I haven't heard about issues when used with source components - i.e. well under it's maximum power rating.

 

Just as well that PS Audio have dropped the PPP in favour of new models - I haven't heard how those are getting on.

post #87 of 87
The PPP was far different than its bigger, newer brother the P5. My PPP also failed, but the P5 is a U.S. made quality piece. The PPP was made overseas.
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