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Compare: Direct CD listening v. Apple lossless listening - Page 2

post #16 of 255
4/5/08 at 8:16am
I thought a CD skip also counted as jitter?
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post #17 of 255
4/5/08 at 2:18pm
With an undamaged CD and a well aligned pickup in the CD player, the likelihood of skipping is pretty small. Error correction takes care of just about everything before you even hear it.

See ya
Steve
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post #18 of 255
4/5/08 at 2:22pm
Are you saying this error correction is present in direct play?
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post #19 of 255
4/5/08 at 3:40pm
Yes. Every CD player, DVD player or CD burner has built in error correction that is able to completely correct simple errors on the fly. It can even correct big errors so they aren't audible, but that level of correction isn't bit perfect.

Almost all of the errors in normal CD playback are corrected by the player with no impact on the digital signal.

See ya
Steve
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post #20 of 255
4/5/08 at 3:58pm
I can hear a noticable difference when i switch between my cd player/external dac to the line out of my ipod, i'm suprised there is even a debate. Why do dac players upsample if you can get the same SQ even by a lossless downsample? I'm not clear on that but i tell you there is a big difference to my ears-but to each his/her own.
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post #21 of 255
4/5/08 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallan View Post
I can hear a noticable difference when i switch between my cd player/external dac to the line out of my ipod, i'm suprised there is even a debate. Why do dac players upsample if you can get the same SQ even by a lossless downsample? I'm not clear on that but i tell you there is a big difference to my ears-but to each his/her own.
It may be something as simple as a level difference, my external DAC is substantially louder than the analog outs on my 3 CD playing devices, it makes a comparison tough. For what it is worth Stereophile did extensive testing on the iPod and it really is surprisingly good in all the meaningful technical parameters, I don't incliude jitter in those since it is really a non issue, but it did well in jitter terms as well. In fact the iPod is so good it was used in a merry jape where a room full of audiophiles were fooled into thinking they were listening to a twenty thousand dollar CD player
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post #22 of 255
4/5/08 at 5:28pm
I take into account the db increase and adjust the volume accordingly. I am not saying that the ipods have bad sound but there are constraints for the size. When listening on the dac output i just hear more transparency and depth like the instruments jump out at you and are bright in comparison to the ipod that is a flater sound, not as three demensional, sort of like my older cd player w/o the dac in line.
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post #23 of 255
4/5/08 at 8:40pm
Thread Starter 

If there is a difference, which SQ is better

You say you can hear a noticeable difference between the CD and the Ipod. What is the difference? Is it volume level? SQ? Thanks.
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post #24 of 255
4/6/08 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallan View Post
I take into account the db increase and adjust the volume accordingly.
So you are using a preamp to match the line level of one to another? That is the way to do a direct A/B comparison. If you are just adjusting the level by ear on the fly, there's no way you can do any sort of real comparison. If there is a difference, it is extremely subtle.

Here is what I did...

I took a CD and ripped a track to AIFF. Loaded the AIFF onto the iPod.

Ran line out from the iPod to a preamp and from there into the input of my amp.

Ran line out from the CD player into another input of the amp.

Carefully adjusted the level on the preamp to match levels on the two. (this took about 20 minutes to get perfect).

Racked up the track at the same spot and hit play on both.

Switched back and forth between inputs.

I listened and strained with both headphones and speakers to hear a difference, and I couldn't. Both sounded exactly the same. Theoretically, the iPod was at a disadvantage having to run through an extra preamp, but I only had one preamp this time. It didn't make any difference. The sound was identical. If you are hearing a significant difference, you may have a bad iPod. Try the test with a friend's iPod and see if you get different results.

See ya
Steve
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post #25 of 255
5/23/08 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
The level of jitter you are talking about is likely 100 time below the threshold of audibility. Jitter is only an issue for high end stereo salesmen who want to sell you more equipment.

Through lineout, I did a direct, line level matched A/B comparison with my home CD player and an aiff rip playing through the lineout of the iPod. There was no difference. They sounded exactly the same.

See ya
Steve
Good comment Steve! Could you tell us which cd player you have?
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post #26 of 255
5/23/08 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarroyo View Post

I have an iModded 4th Gen iPod Photo and when used as a source to my ears it is indistinguishable from a cd-player.
Hi. Also in your case. When you say "cd player". Which cd players have you compared with the ipod?
Thanks.
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post #27 of 255
5/23/08 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallan View Post
I can hear a noticable difference when i switch between my cd player/external dac to the line out of my ipod, i'm suprised there is even a debate. Why do dac players upsample if you can get the same SQ even by a lossless downsample? I'm not clear on that but i tell you there is a big difference to my ears-but to each his/her own.
Also in your case, which equipment are you comparing with the ipod?
Thanks.
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post #28 of 255
5/23/08 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bf2008 View Post
Hi. Also in your case. When you say "cd player". Which cd players have you compared with the ipod?
Thanks.
not sure what Miguel is using today but for a long time he had a pretty nice arcam fm series cdp and I seriously doubt he stepped back in quality

on a side note computer as a source is the way to go, providing you have a well implemented usb dac (most are crapola) or a great usb to spidf or aes convertor (aes is better in my sound trials)
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post #29 of 255
5/23/08 at 10:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bf2008 View Post
Good comment Steve! Could you tell us which cd player you have?
I've since chucked my home CD players and use my Macbook as my main source now. In the past, I've had a Philips 963sa, a cheapo Coby DVD/CD player and various midrange Sony players/changers/Discmans.

See ya
Steve
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post #30 of 255
5/24/08 at 12:52am
I've noticed that home CD players usually give a higher output than an iPod. Probably has to do with battery conservation considerations in the iPod, whereas a CDP plugged into the wall doesn't need to cut back.

If you're running without a preamp, the CDP may be a slightly better choice because you could use it at a lower volume setting on your amp. That usually decreases distortion a wee bit. Maybe not enough to really notice but hey, lowering the volume will make your tubes last a little longer.
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