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MHDT Havana DAC - Page 160

post #2386 of 2474

Hello,

 

Happy new year to all !!!

Vcaps CUTF installed ( Output and Input ) , and Audyn TC in C11

it's burning ... long burning, already very good and promising.

 

Someone has tested Russian PIO K40Y-9 in C11 ?

It seems to have a good synergy with teflon ...

 

STEF 


Edited by BORDELO - 1/9/14 at 10:36pm
post #2387 of 2474

A few words about V-Cap CuTF:

(it is a reconfirmation that they are very good capacitors)

 

http://www.higas.net/audio-hifi/audio-reviews/capacitor-review/

 

quote:

"Changing AN-Silver with V-Cap CuTF, I had immediately noticed more air, more details and weightier bass.  Initially, it may sound a bit metallic and bright but after a notoriously long break-in

(VH Audio indicates 400 hour break-in period), musicality comes back with more natural tone/texture to the sound.  It is the most transparent, neutral and detailed capacitor of the three and arguably most flat/extended in the frequency range, subjectively speaking.  It has excellent sense of speed, pace, rhythm and timing. It is a wonderful capacitor and I can understand that a lots of audiophiles are very happy with them, including me".

 

I perceived noticeable changes in sound even after 700-800 hours of break-in.

Duelund promise a lot. I'm sorry that I haven't two Havana (one with CuTF and another one with Cast PIO like Eugene..) :etysmile:Unfortunately Duelund fits harder for lack of space and it is more difficult to install them.

 

quote:

"Both CuTF and CAST PIO Cu are highly recommended if your budget permits.  Both achieve a fine balance of high-fidelity and musicality.  CuTF may be tilted slightly towards high-fidelity while CAST PIO Cu emphasizes musicality a bit more".

post #2388 of 2474

I'd like the opinion of any of the more technically minded guys here ...

 

As you all know, I'm a long time user of the MHDT DACS ... the Havana for many years and now the Stockholm for the past two or so. I've used them in the totally stock configuration because this is adequate for me and I'm not a DIY guy (and I am just satisfied with the sound in general and so don't want to mess with it).

 

Anyway, I'm considering buying a Musical Paradise MP-D1 tube DAC to compare/review against the Stockholm... 

 

I've been intrigued by it ever since discovering it and the price is rather affordable; also, the reviews that are out there, mostly with speaker rigs, are very good.

 

...

 

 

...

...

 

 

...

 

I'm curious about it because it supposedly uses true analogue tube output for each channel, as opposed to being a simple single tube buffer stage.  Also, it uses 5670 tubes, like the MHDT DACs but the main thing I'm interested in is seeing how much of an influence the tubes make on the sonics (especially when tube rolling) since according to the designers site, the DAC actually uses the tubes for the actual output stage of each channel.

 

"Our goal is to achieve the most analog sound in the digital world. In order to meet this goal, the analog output section only employs "vacuum tubes". No cheap op-amp or transistors. Also, no global negative feedback loop. This special design provides very musical listening experience."

 

I'm curious what any of you who know about circuit design might be able to say about how this design looks. 

 

???

 

Here's the main page where you can read more about the design:

 

...

 

Musical Paradise MP-D

 

$480.00 with a 7 day return window. 

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks.

.joel

post #2389 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1rrah View Post
 

As you all know, I'm a long time user of the MHDT DACS ... the Havana for many years and now the Stockholm for the past two or so. I've used them in the totally stock configuration because this is adequate for me and I'm not a DIY guy (and I am just satisfied with the sound in general and so don't want to mess with it).

 

Good for you, Joel! :atsmile: You are satisfied with the sound in general.. It means you have a different psychological construct or maybe you haven't been infected since with the virus. But you said you're not a DIY guy, supposed to notice that. :smile:I do not consider myself a "DIY-er", but I have a lot of thoughts like this in my head... Even after touching an exemplary quality I start thinking about what I could change. This is a bad thing viewed from a certain point of view. Probably I am too perfectionist, maybe too tensioned with what I have. I do not know exactly.

 

I can not say anything about that DAC, I have not studied the issue yet.

post #2390 of 2474

I have some advices for those who want to listen to Havana for a long time ago and achieves a superior sound quality (otherwise it is not justify to reselling..)

To achieve their full sound potential and to overcome much its class compared to unmodified version, I speak from my experience regarding this DAC, it is very important to invest in all sections.

- electrolytics;

- film capacitors: output (0,47uF)/input (0,01uF), C11 section (0,22uF), C12 (0,01uF),  and what is equally important 0,1uF (all seven film capacitors)!

It is the choice of everyone which choose there, but it is recommended something qualitative: Audyn, Rike Audio, Jupiter, V-Caps, etc .. These are a few tested solutions. I have chosen V-Cap CuTF mixed with Rike S-Cap, a very good combination.

...etc,

 

On the other hand there is a kind of ranking to prioritize those critical components. I don't pretend that everything is located right in terms of absolute.

From my point of view is the following (the first are the most important, last the least important):

- V-Cap CuTF for output (or Duelund Cast PIO).

- V-Cap CuTF for input (or Duelund Cast PIO).

These are probably the best solution.

- Rike S-Cap PIO (0,10uF) or something else but better than Auricap. Remember, better!... As I said, it is important to put instead 0,1uF stock film high quality capacitors.

- Electrolytic capacitors: I don't recommand to investing much here (for example Black Gate are too expensive, prices are stealthily for these capacitors...) :blink:

If I were to start all over again probably I would satisfied with Elna Silmic II. Elna are very good with an unbeatable price-quality ratio.

- further I think I bet on S-Cap or Audyn TC on C11* instead V-Cap Cutf becouse V-Caps are too expensive and break-in extremly hard here. It is a real pain to do this...:D

* i'm not pretty shure if this is the correct position in the hierarchy.

- Tubes;

- PCM56P - K grade chips;

- R-core transformer;

- Elna ROB Tonerex (4pcs), power supply capacitors;

- Resistors (Shinkoh Tantalum) around the tube socket;

- Conectors (rca)

- Schottky diodes,

- Fuse

- Small Isolation Feet

Some permutations can occur in this list according to personal preferences, but overall ranking is accurate.

... so, I thing the Film capacitors are the greatest impact, followed by electrolytics and connectors resistors, diodes, fuse, etc.. bringing even minor changes.

post #2391 of 2474

Thanks Horace for this summation. 

It's very helpful for new Havana's Diyers

 

At the moment, i'm very enjoying with Audyn TC at C11 place.

It's very musical.

 

My Vcap CUTF have already burned 180 hours. So, i don't change anything before 400hours.

After that, i'm tempted to test Russian PIO K40Y-9 at C11 and/or C12.

 

To be continued...

 

Cheers

STEF

post #2392 of 2474

Any comparisons with the other SS DACs like an Audio-GD or Yulong or etc..?

post #2393 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by loserica View Post
 

I have some advices for those who want to listen to Havana for a long time ago and achieves a superior sound quality (otherwise it is not justify to reselling..)

To achieve their full sound potential and to overcome much its class compared to unmodified version, I speak from my experience regarding this DAC, it is very important to invest in all sections.

- electrolytics;

- film capacitors: output (0,47uF)/input (0,01uF), C11 section (0,22uF), C12 (0,01uF),  and what is equally important 0,1uF (all seven film capacitors)!

It is the choice of everyone which choose there, but it is recommended something qualitative: Audyn, Rike Audio, Jupiter, V-Caps, etc .. These are a few tested solutions. I have chosen V-Cap CuTF mixed with Rike S-Cap, a very good combination.

...etc,

 

On the other hand there is a kind of ranking to prioritize those critical components. I don't pretend that everything is located right in terms of absolute.

From my point of view is the following (the first are the most important, last the least important):

- V-Cap CuTF for output (or Duelund Cast PIO).

- V-Cap CuTF for input (or Duelund Cast PIO).

These are probably the best solution.

- Rike S-Cap PIO (0,10uF) or something else but better than Auricap. Remember, better!... As I said, it is important to put instead 0,1uF stock film high quality capacitors.

- Electrolytic capacitors: I don't recommand to investing much here (for example Black Gate are too expensive, prices are stealthily for these capacitors...) :blink:

If I were to start all over again probably I would satisfied with Elna Silmic II. Elna are very good with an unbeatable price-quality ratio.

- further I think I bet on S-Cap or Audyn TC on C11* instead V-Cap Cutf becouse V-Caps are too expensive and break-in extremly hard here. It is a real pain to do this...:D

* i'm not pretty shure if this is the correct position in the hierarchy.

- Tubes;

- PCM56P - K grade chips;

- R-core transformer;

- Elna ROB Tonerex (4pcs), power supply capacitors;

- Resistors (Shinkoh Tantalum) around the tube socket;

- Conectors (rca)

- Schottky diodes,

- Fuse

- Small Isolation Feet

Some permutations can occur in this list according to personal preferences, but overall ranking is accurate.

... so, I thing the Film capacitors are the greatest impact, followed by electrolytics and connectors resistors, diodes, fuse, etc.. bringing even minor changes.

 

^^^ that right there is why I so love this thread. 

post #2394 of 2474
S1rrah,
Knowing that everything is subjective and system dependent, I've owned both a Havana and MP-D1. They sound very similar. I personally think it would be a lateral move. Both lacked deep base in my system. Both were natural and musical. The MP-D1 was connected directly to my Bob Latino ST-70 tube amp and produced a background hum/hiss noise. Tube rolling didn't help. I never had this problem with others DAC's connected directly. I liked the DAC enough to put in a stepped attenuator in my amp, which tells you something, That helped. However, I ultimately sold it due to it's bass shyness, plain looks and inherent noisiness. That said, customer support was good, and if someone couldn't afford a Havana and didn't mind the DAC's size, it's worth a try. Come prepared with electrical tape to cover that blinding LED...
post #2395 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcentyre View Post

S1rrah,
Knowing that everything is subjective and system dependent, I've owned both a Havana and MP-D1. They sound very similar. I personally think it would be a lateral move. Both lacked deep base in my system. Both were natural and musical. The MP-D1 was connected directly to my Bob Latino ST-70 tube amp and produced a background hum/hiss noise. Tube rolling didn't help. I never had this problem with others DAC's connected directly. I liked the DAC enough to put in a stepped attenuator in my amp, which tells you something, That helped. However, I ultimately sold it due to it's bass shyness, plain looks and inherent noisiness. That said, customer support was good, and if someone couldn't afford a Havana and didn't mind the DAC's size, it's worth a try. Come prepared with electrical tape to cover that blinding LED...

 

This is the second reason why I so love this thread.

 

Just saved me 500 bucks, mate. Thanks for that.

 

:-)

post #2396 of 2474

Subscribed 

post #2397 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkorten View Post
 

Wouldn't you think a $3500 DAC should sound better than a $1000 DAC (previous generation too)?

You should compare to their current top of the line (Pagoda) and let's be real, compare to competition up to 2X the price, but 3X?

I think compared to other $1300 DACs the Pagoda is a bargain.

 

I remembered this post today. :smile:

 

Yes it would be true when compared Havana (the stock-version, because we can speak now in these terms) with Dac7. But here has been invested in high-end components (eg. Black Gate, V-Cap CuTF). Tests that I have done at that time were not very accurate because I recently installed new capacitors (Rike S-Cap) and they have not been break-in enough or at all. This was one of the reasons I liked Dac7 by far. Something was not seated in Havana, yet! Why I didn't sold Havana? I gave it another chance and I waited patiently the final break-in.

 

I speaking from memory now. Differences between the two DACs were greatly reduced that I would say differences are more about nuance.. The lowest level of differences are related to sound-stage, imaging, details, timing, etc...but these are insignificant.  Only slight differences are related to frequency response: bass is overall better with Dac7 but Havana has been very much close; Probably Dac7 is better in speed and dynamics also.

Vocals are expressed with the same delicacy, refinement and with the same realism on both (there are differences in nuances, texture, of course). Yet, I feel like vocals are played with a little more force and a little more authority with Audio Research but here the differences are also extremely small. I can say honestly that I like as much both of (it seems to be kind of complementarity, the vocal timbre, texture with Havana has something special indeed but I can say the same about Dac7).

The two DACs sound extremely relaxed, airy and give a nice analogue feel to the music. Both DACs have the same level of coherence and an exemplary separation of instruments. Everything is revealed and placed accurately and produces acoustic instruments and vocals in a very natural and convincing way.

 

I noticed that Havana is better in terms of high-frequency transparency and upper-treble extension, where Dac7 is less reserved. It surprises me because I always thought that Havana has a darker signature of texture, tonality. Should be noted that Rike S-Caps having contributed decisively, bringing that level of transparency and texture that I've always wanted it.

 

If Havana would have the amount of Dac7 bass and maybe just a little more power, energy and probably more dynamics, it would be the perfect converter for me, for my setup and for my level of exigency!! Anyway, the reason I kept Havana is because I like its sound and even if Audio Research sounds a little better overall I wouldn't be happier with it.


Edited by loserica - 1/13/14 at 10:28am
post #2398 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by loserica View Post
 

 

Here's the key point. It need minimum of three hundred hours of burning!! Oil caps need to settle in the specific circuit through regular use, remember minimum 300 hours. Then they will reach that level of texture that you dreamed. :etysmile:

The differences between 300 hours of burning and as I heard at 25 hours are major, unbelievable for me. They acquired a very rich sound but also that dynamics, that coherence, clarity which is impossible to achieve with cheaper solutions. After this it will come the refinement and emotion in audition. I felt the same from the beginning, some lack of emotion and warm.. but it was only apparently that Rike is weaker than the other capacitors in this chapter. I recommend you to keep S-Cap on c11 and to change all 0,1uF capacitors with Rike! I think they are enough to make Havana to sound really special.

 

After the last upgrade (Rike Audio S-Cap - seven 0,1uF film caps who replaced Auricap), BUT ONLY NOW they are almost completely break-in I discovered that sonorous depth, texture and musical sense that comes to enjoy without stopping! Only now I understand either partial, what Eugene said when compared CuTF with Duelund (which are also PIO Capacitors):

quote:

"The CuTF sound more vivid and super saturated by comparison whereas the CAST are smooooooth but every bit as detailed, possibly a tiny bit more.  Imaging is so rock solid with so much depth and definition all all the way back through the sound stage.  It's kind of like the CuTF are like an HDTV set up in an a store display where the picture is really bold and pretty, but the CAST are like a properly calibrated set that's natural and easy on the eyes (ears in this case).  Not to say the CAST produce a subdued sound -- not at all.  It's hard to explain"...

 

Even Duelund would be better, with a little more richness and tonal colour, I believe that Rike S-Caps have much of the Duelund characteristic sound being all PIO. At this level we talk about very good paper-in-oil capacitors. So seriously, Havana's sound is now so smoooooth and every bit as detailed!! Imaging is so solid with so much depth and definition!! For me it is amazing how much has changed its sound with this latest upgrade. :L3000: 

 

I think Eugene will confirm later what I said here. Without changing of all seven 0,1uF film with a higher quality capacitors you will never hear this DAC at the maximum sound's potential!! :D

post #2399 of 2474

Hi everybody.

 

This highly interresting thread have tempted me to try caps/chips rolling too.

I need some help so...

I plan to take the inexpensive way and use cheap russian K72P caps (placed in a wooden base under the Havana) for C9,C10,C11,C12 and the seven 0.1uf one.

For the output caps,I will go for the 1uf Rike S.

 

Is it safe to use 200v caps in the Havana?

0.1uf value is impossible to find in higher voltage rating than 200v with the K72P (the most closed value is .082uf).

So I don't know if I must use 0.1uf 200v or 0.082uf 500v for the seven last caps.

If both solutions are bad,I can always use FT3 (.1uf /600v) instead but I'm not sure if I will like their smouth sound.

And how about the input caps? is is better to stay close the original value (0.001uf 1000v) or is a higher value,lower voltage rating recommended?

 

My goal is to jump in musicality and definition but not invest too much because I'm not sure to keep the havana in the final.

This year,I would to try a jKenny Ciunas usb/spdif with the Havana and compare this combo to the Ciunas dac (direct usb/i2s dac without spdif in the signal path).

After the evaluation time,I will know wich dac is better in my system and return one of the two jKenny devices.

If the Havana win,it will be time for serious caps upgrade...

post #2400 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVeye View Post
 

I plan to take the inexpensive way and use cheap russian K72P caps (placed in a wooden base under the Havana) for C9,C10,C11,C12 and the seven 0.1uf one.

 

 

Hello,

 

Good idea, i have the same.

 

So i'm going to test K40Y-9 200V in C11. 

I think 200V is good value for Havana. Stock one is 250V ...


Edited by BORDELO - 1/13/14 at 2:35pm
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