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MHDT Havana DAC - Page 153

post #2281 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdh View Post
 

I would think it would be worthwhile for MHDT to ask one of the regulars here if they could lend them one of each for an in-depth review.  How many people have bought a Havana due to this thread?  How many of us would be willing to upgrade if we knew there was a significantly better sounding model, and we knew the different sonic characteristics of the different models:

 

Havana 2 Stockholm 2 Atlantis Pagoda Steeplechase

 

Well I am not that regular, but do have both the Steeplechase and the Pagoda. These two models by the way are the only ones that put out 24 bit resolution that is converted to analog. The Havana and Stockhom are 16 bit output format. So those are relegated to bluebook CD playback in my opinion. The Pagoda and Steeplechase are HD format capable (192kHz 24 bit). So I'd think that would be a worthy comparison. As I mentioned earlier, I have also a Rega DAC and a Mytek192. So I'm thinking of having a DAC shootout and my two audiophile buddies over to help discern differences and render in words. I have a fairly revealing system. Are there other qualifications for reviewing?

post #2282 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkorten View Post
 

 

Well I am not that regular, but do have both the Steeplechase and the Pagoda.

 

Could you please let us see these DACs posting here some photos?

 

thanks

post #2283 of 2474

I guess my point was, how much better is the Pagoda than the original Havana?  Just because it supports true 24-bit resolution does not mean the sound, sound stage, etc. is better, since the DAC chips and presumably other parts are different between the two.  I would hope so, but that's no guarantee.  And how does it compare to the Atlantis, which while 'only' 20-bit, it uses yet another type of DAC chip.

post #2284 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdh View Post
 

I guess my point was, how much better is the Pagoda than the original Havana?  Just because it supports true 24-bit resolution does not mean the sound, sound stage, etc. is better, since the DAC chips and presumably other parts are different between the two.  I would hope so, but that's no guarantee.  And how does it compare to the Atlantis, which while 'only' 20-bit, it uses yet another type of DAC chip.

 

My guess is that for bluebook CDs they'd sound fairly similar. I believe they both use the same discrete IV converter and the pics on their website show similar layout to the Pagoda. But what do we know without a schematic?

post #2285 of 2474

Looks like they've added a heat sink to the LM317 and laid out the parts in a more symmetrical way on the Pagoda.

post #2286 of 2474

I finally tried 0.22uf Jupiter Vintage Tone on c11 instead of Mundorf Silver Gold Oil (6 months later it's never too late...), I'm surprised how it sounds silkier compared to Mundorf S/G/O. A bit warmer but more natural on my mind (not regarding timbres though) : music sounds liquid when it was harsh with Mundorf. Surprising because they cost 20x less... :blink:

 

Jupiter is less shaded and may be a bit thinner than mundorf (less micro détails or body ?), may be technically inferior so but more pleasant to listen to on my system for the moment because of this analogic sounding property. It only has 1 hour burnin in but anyway I'm impressed by the natural and liquid sound it brings instead of Mundorf.

 

 

I Wonder if I won't grow tired of their slightly colored sound however with the time...


Edited by mako44 - 10/25/13 at 3:41pm
post #2287 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by mako44 View Post
 

I finally tried 0.22uf Jupiter Vintage Tone on c11 instead of Mundorf Silver Gold Oil (6 months later it's never too late...), I'm surprised how it sounds silkier compared to Mundorf S/G/O. A bit warmer but more natural on my mind (not regarding timbres though) : music sounds liquid when it was harsh with Mundorf. Surprising because they cost 20x less... :blink:

Jupiter is less shaded and may be a bit thinner than mundorf (less micro détails or body ?), may be technically inferior so but more pleasant to listen to on my system for the moment because of this analogic sounding property. It only has 1 hour burnin in but anyway I'm impressed by the natural and liquid sound it brings instead of Mundorf.

I Wonder if I won't grow tired of their slightly colored sound however with the time...

 

V-cap CuTF will be better than Jupiter, but it is more expensive indeed. CuTF of 0,22uF needs a huge burning-in period (above 1.200 hours, but I estimate even 2.000 hours!! :blink:). V-Cap CuTF will sound better at the level of transparency, image and resolution compared with Jupiter VT. I inclined to think that it is one of the best solutions here (on c11 place).

I received for several days seven Rike S-Cap PIO capacitors (paper in oil aluminium foil - 0,1uF/600VDC). They are very large compared to Auricap. I will come back with impressions in about a week. I'll find out then what happens if I change all 0,1uF capacitors, whether it will be a revelation in sound or a disappointment.. I hope to get more texture and liquidity and also better dynamics and depth. We'll see. :smile:


Edited by loserica - 10/28/13 at 12:11pm
post #2288 of 2474

I ordered 3x 0.1uf vcap cutf for c9-c10 & c12 I should receive them in a couple of days. However for c11 I'm waiting to see Jupiter vintage tone issues. Compared to Mundorf SGO the music is slightly simplified, for example with mundorf live recordings were really alive, atmospheres in general were really great, with Jupiter I have a little bit less the feeling to be there. Background is less black and some micro informations are missing however it's very sweet (in the good way) and more pleasant to listen to because mundorf were a bit harsh sometimes and the listening tiring on my system.

 

Jupiter VT burnt in only 5-6 hours for the moment so it may improve nicely, even if it's very pleasant yet.


Edited by mako44 - 10/27/13 at 12:44pm
post #2289 of 2474

mako I used Jupiter VT before switching to CuTF and I know what you mean about their sound.  It is pleasant and really has a "vintage" tone to it, but ultimately they did not sound open and visceral enough for my bigger room compared to CuTF.

 

If you want to try another cap I suggest Intertechnik Audyn Cap True Copper.  I just went from ClarityCap MR to Mundorf SGIO to the Audyn True Copper in my speaker crossovers and I am kind of in love with it.  It is a very musical sounding cap with SET-like bloom and body to it, but very good separation, soundstage, and detail retrieval as well as tons of air.  In my mind it gives the V-Cap CuTF a run for its money.  Maybe not quite as ultimately resolving or clean (the CuTF is rather pristine), but maybe more natural.  I kind of think of it as a Duelund CAST Jr. at a much more reasonable cost.  I think the sound is somewhere between the Duelund and Jupiter HT Beeswax, which is what I use in 2nd Havana for 0.22uF.  The caps are huge though!  Substantially bigger than Clarity MR, but not has big as the dynamite-sized Duelunds.

 

I tried the Audyn True Copper after reading Tony Gee's eval of it in the infamous Humble Homemade Hifi list and I think his description is pretty dead on (actually I agree with his assessments on all the caps I've tried from that list).

post #2290 of 2474

Thanks for your suggestion Kimchee I ordered one :bigsmile_face:.

 

A mix between Duelund and Jupiter HT looks really seducing... Jupiter Vintage tone would be perfect if I was not slighly frustrated sometimes : my dac is very pleasant to listen to with it but I'd like to improve lack of atmospheres and it's a bit lean too... I'll compare both and see if I keep Jupiter VT or go on with Audyn.

 

I could also try Clarity MR but I suspect it would be too open and may be not that musical like with Mundorf SGIO. Jupiter VT has the quality to let the music flows (with a sweet mellow sound), with a bit more body and openess it would be really nice on my system.

post #2291 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by mako44 View Post
 

A mix between Duelund and Jupiter HT looks really seducing... Jupiter Vintage tone would be perfect if I was not slighly frustrated sometimes : my dac is very pleasant to listen to with it but I'd like to improve lack of atmospheres and it's a bit lean too... I'll compare both and see if I keep Jupiter VT or go on with Audyn.

I could also try Clarity MR but I suspect it would be too open and may be not that musical like with Mundorf SGIO. Jupiter VT has the quality to let the music flows (with a sweet mellow sound), with a bit more body and openess it would be really nice on my system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee411 View Post

I tried the Audyn True Copper after reading Tony Gee's eval of it in the infamous Humble Homemade Hifi list and I think his description is pretty dead on (actually I agree with his assessments on all the caps I've tried from that list).

 

I had the same source of inspiration when I bought the Rike S-Caps. I oscillated between Audyn True Copper and Rike for 0,1uF capacity. Both are rated at the same level of quality in these reviews. I will test in the future for my curiosity on C11 place both 0,22uF capacitors to see what is still better and compare them with CuTF...I would also like a Duelund Cast PIO. :ksc75smile: 

post #2292 of 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by mako44 View Post
 

Jupiter VT has the quality to let the music flows (with a sweet mellow sound), with a bit more body and openess it would be really nice on my system.

 

 

Jutiper VT is one of the best solutions there, it lets the music flow like Makk44 says. I put there several caps and  finally Jupiter VT was the best one.


Edited by robeeert1 - 10/30/13 at 12:14am
post #2293 of 2474

You're right that's the most pleasant version of my dac with this cap, I'd like to test Audyn True copper to see if i find the same balance but a tad further technically.

 

I liked it with Jupiter HT on c12 too and neutral cap on c11 (incredible voices/medium, wonderful presence feeling, magic & sensual sound) but a bit too much on the warm side. Would worth a try though : clarity MR on c11 and Jupiter HT on c12 to compare.


Edited by mako44 - 10/29/13 at 4:25pm
post #2294 of 2474

I replaced today the seven 0,1uF Auricap (400Vdc) capacitors with Rike S-Cap PIO (Paper in Oil Aluminium foil) and I'm surprised in the most positive sense. I can say that Rike are in another level of quality. Notable differences appears on dynamics, resolution, micro-details and texture. The sound is very coherent now with a consistent depth and a darker black background. The S-Caps are more lively and open compared with Auricaps and give a touch of liquidity and higher refinement (and it sounds more natural of course). It is what I wanted so much. With Auricap the sound was somewhat dry, and for me lacked the emotion. I guessed right when I thought which were the weaknesses in this DAC. Auricap was undoubtedly the weak link compared with other components upgraded.

Rike has a rich texture and tonality. High frequencies are better highlighted, more present, more extensive and a with a superior decay.

The difference is in my opinion considerable, :smile:I felt something similar when I changed the output capacitors OIMP with V-Cap CuTF, I mean something so notable.

So, after the first impression I can say honest that I LOVE the sound of these capacitors (I mean Rike S-Cap)!! The change in the sound, especially on the resolution side is impressive. All this after just a few hours by running...

 

I will come back with pictures this weekend.

post #2295 of 2474

I saw these caps have good comments but i never heard of them before you mentionned them, happy to see you're satisfied of the results. This dac will never stop imrpoving ! :normal_smile :

 

Did you all changed the stock cap by something else on C5 by the way (auricap or another) ? I ordered an auricap xo because I noticed I still have the stock one here i don't know if it will change anything to the sound.

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