Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Gear-Fi: Non-Audio Gear and Gadgets › An interesting conversation I've had about printers
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

An interesting conversation I've had about printers - Page 2

post #16 of 24
My boss is was an HP rep for 15 years. When I used to work for OfficeMax I learned ALOT about HP printers.

Trick for inkjet is, getting a printer that uses a 88 HP cart. If you get the XL, you can get over 2500 pages out of the XL black and around 1500-2000 for each color if you get the XLs of those as well. That amounts to less than a penny per page, as compared to a laser printer that costs about 9-15 cents per page. That's far cheaper than most every other inkjet on the market. Refilling them only saves you like $1-2 per refill, and you risk botching it and having to get a new cart anyways. Filling those 88's requires the refiller to inject a ball bearing in the cart as well as fill the side sacs with air, so it's a major PITA for the refiller as well.

If you print out photos primarily, get a HP printer that uses the 02 carts. Around the same cost per page as the carts are only $10 a pop. $35 if you get the 02 multipack that has all the colors, but you get less prints out of them.

The benny of the HP laser carts, like the Q6000 series is they have the drum and charge roller all integrated on the toner cart, so you don't have to buy a separate drum every other toner like you're supposed to with other laser printers. Your cost per page is around 12-14 cents IIRC. Not bad for color laser printing.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your reply. I can get the HP K550 for a very good price - about 110$ - and it uses the 88 cartridge. The cons are:
1. it uses a separate printing head and replacing it would be very expensive
2. the HP 88 cartridge is around 40$ around here and is, as you said, hardly refillable. Well, at least it is very large, but still it would cost 40$ for ~2000 pages. Refilling the toner cartridge of the HP 1018 / 1020 / Canon LBP 2900 laser printers, which have the same engine and use the same cartridge, would cost me 20$ for a total of 3 refills (x ~2300 pages each + the number of pages corresponding to the initial amount of toner in the cartridge) and then I would have to buy a new cartridge for about 70-80$.
3. I read a lot of negative reviews mentioning the tendency of all the low end HP inkjets and of the K550 in particular to pull more than one page at a time. This would be very unpleasant when printing a lot, especially since I intend to print on both sides and none of the machines in my price range has automatic duplex.

I will not print photos, and the cheapest printer using the 02 cartridge I could buy is the C5180 multifunctional that is too expensive for me (>200$).

The cheapest option for me in this case would be the HP Deskjet D6940, but only if I can refill a lot. Do you know if the HP 96 cartridge (21 ml) allows for many refills? Also, do you know if I should fear the problem number 3 above for this printer too? I don't know, all the low cost HP inkjets seem so very unreliable, judging by the user reviews...

And can you give me your opinion on the HP 1018 and especially Canon LBP 2900 laser printers?
post #18 of 24
I used to work for Canon as an Account Manager for 6 years. Just to put this ink thing in perspective, Canon ink sales account for just over 60% of total profit for the company. The more you know about the company, the more insane that figure is...

Consider all of the product categories Canon are involved in - Cameras, Optical, Business and Industrial copiers/faxes/printers, calculators, paper, binoculars, Digital video, broadcast lenses, micrographics, projectors, scanners... they even have a finance division (and used to make speakers).

Such a diverse catalogue of product allows a company to snatch profit from all over the place, but all of these product categories combined total only 40% of the profit made on ink alone!

Oh, and the printers? Once a little is spent on R&D for the 'new printer lineup' some cost less than $10 each to actually manufacture.

I'm not picking on Canon here, just that I know more about the companies inner workings - it is an example, but all printer manufacturers are much the same. At least some 'specialise' I suppose...

Oicdn's comments above are right. Purchase a printer based on the cartridge - its price relative to volume capable of being produced. Also be aware that there is no true industry 'standard page' when manufacturers quote output, but they do have to specify what the output actually is (ie: 30% page coverage, or show an image of the printed page being quoted).
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Quichotte View Post
[B][U]Anyone knows how many times should I expect to be able to refill an ink cartridge?
It all depends. Many printers have output nozzles capable of 1 picolitre droplets. Pierce a refill needle through that and your cartridge is stuffed (or at least not able to provide the same performance).

BTW, Do yourself a favor and do not buy a Lexmark. Go nuts and purchase any other brand/product, but Lexmark will have you cursing until you trash it - might as well fill your house with Bose
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
Thanks poo! The profit made on ink you mention is stupendous indeed .

I'm almost sure I will buy the Canon 2900 laser in the end.
post #21 of 24
The reason people buy laser? People are blinded by the fact that you can print "2500 pages on a single cart....lets see your inkjet do that!" mindset....sure, you get that many pages, but jesus, you're spending $100+ on a toner. Then buying a drum the next time around, making your price DOUBLE. People don't realize, bottom line is cost per page. And in most cases, it's DOUBLE with a laser. You just have more time between buying cartridges, but you're really spending more money....

The only advantage laser has over inkjet is legal documents. You have to have a laser printed document in many states for it to even be a legal contract. It's not like you can really alter an inkjet document, but the ink runs if wet, and I think that's the point. Laser printed documents you can submerge in water and it's fine, aside from the paper being wet. Hence the reason they're used for flyers, brochures, etc. Weather-ability.

Yeah, that 88XL cart is $40, but you get near 2000 pages and depending on the printer, it's FASTER than a laser. Hard to swallow. But the DPI/resolution on your inkjets will ALWAYS better a laser. Ofcourse there are exceptions, but you'll also be paying for it.

It's all preference really, and what it boils down to is future usability. My dad has a B&W laser printer he absolutely loves, but can't find a drum or toner for it anymore (well he can, but pays a premium cause it's hard to find), so is limited to sparing use, lol.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by oicdn View Post
The reason people buy laser? People are blinded by the fact that you can print "2500 pages on a single cart....lets see your inkjet do that!" mindset....sure, you get that many pages, but jesus, you're spending $100+ on a toner. Then buying a drum the next time around, making your price DOUBLE. People don't realize, bottom line is cost per page. And in most cases, it's DOUBLE with a laser. You just have more time between buying cartridges, but you're really spending more money....
Bud, you never heard of refilling a laser toner cartridge? Most laser models which have an integrated cartridge with the toner and the drum together are good for about 15-20k's worth of usage, if you refill the toner when it runs out. Then, assuming you get a new toner/drum cartridge combo, you're good for another 15-20k's pages of printing and refilling.

Let's take my Samsung ML-2510 printer for example. It uses the ML-2010D3 cartridge, which is rated for a yield of 3000 pages. Let's just be conservative and say about 2500 pages for each fill. Now, going to TonerKits gives me a $9 refill good for another 3000 pages, including the fuse I need for resetting the cartridge. Assuming 4 refills per toner cartridge before I replace it, this will cost me $36 in toner costs for roughly 12,500 pages.

A new toner, according to Pricegrabber, will cost me roughly $60. This is another 2,500 pages of printing (by our estimate). Total printing cost is $96 for 15,000 pages.

Filling toner takes me about 3-4 minutes each time. Take out 2 screws, unpop the cap, use the spout to fill the toner cartridge by shaking the refill bottle upside down, and recap and re-screw when you're done. Go back inside the house (do it outside, you'll most likely spill some because it's a very fine powder) and then put the toner back in the printer.

What does my calculator tell me? 0.64 cents per page, not counting paper or power costs. And all the major replaceable parts (drum, most importantly) are replaced every 20k pages.

Beat that with an inkjet. Seriously.

P.S. Your $40 cartridge per 2000 pages gives me... 2 cents per page. That's 3 times more than my per-page cost. And I print much faster than most inkjets for black and white stuff. Which is what most of my school-work related printing is.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by oicdn View Post
People don't realize, bottom line is cost per page. And in most cases, it's DOUBLE with a laser.
This is just flat out untrue. Consumables (toner/ink) are an order of magnitude cheaper and maintenance is far, far less frequent. (Why is there an active used market for used business laser printers, and none for used inkjets? Because they're just not made to be durable.)
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 
In the end, I bought the Canon LBP 2900 monochrome laser printer. All is good so far. I like the fact that, beside the toner save mode, I can also adjust the toner density in 5 steps, allowing for even more pages / refill. At the lightest setting (-2), the letters in the printed text appear quite thin and almost grey rather than black, but I really don't mind much, I don't find it tiring.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Gear-Fi: Non-Audio Gear and Gadgets › An interesting conversation I've had about printers