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post #16 of 113
3/26/08 at 12:47pm
They don't have to, the OS uses core audio. Any sound goes through core audio.

I'm not working from manuals and theory. I have and use a duet.
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post #17 of 113
3/26/08 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post
The 325is are the worst headphones I've ever listened to, the high end is distracting to the point of almost being painful.
I think Grado may have updated them again, as I recently got some and the high end isn't the least bit distracting straight out of my duet. In fact they sound great from it! There is a fluid, smooth and very strong bottom end, very clear, precise highs (what i call studio highs), and INCREDIBLE fantastic super-juicy mids.
I wouldn't say it was a high-end focussed sound at all. Very balanced. Analytical but also engaging.
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post #18 of 113
3/26/08 at 1:48pm
I'm not saying some people don't like the 325is. I'm not even saying you're wrong to like them. But they don't work with my ears.
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post #19 of 113
3/26/08 at 10:27pm
I have to tell you, the minidac is EXCELLENT! I've heard it for a considerable while... and it's in fact the one I want to buy... but it's also quite expensive!


On the other hand, I do not have the same hours on the duet, but from what I could heard directly to my DT880 it's very very good. Probably the best relation Price/Quality received



Quote:
Originally Posted by Solan View Post
ricmat: it seems apogee products get good reviews. Do you sacrifice much in the DA department by having to work the other way (AD) too? How are the Mini-DAC and other products from Apogee in comparison? I notice that the Duet ties you to iTunes. How is it with Mini-DAC?
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post #20 of 113
3/27/08 at 7:21am
Thread Starter 
OK, from your inputs and from Jaska's, it now stands between the Duet and the mini-DAC. I might, in a few years, also buy a tube head-amp so as to enjoy the two different types of good sound from a good transistor amp and a good tube amp - and see which music fits which type of amplifier best.

A friend of mine recommends always buying the component one step up from the one you have decided on, just to make sure you don't regret anything, and as I understand, the mini-DAC is the step up from the Duet. But it's a step which means an almost doubling of price, so I will not automatically follow my friend's advice in this case.

1a. If I buy the Mini-DAC, will I ever have any reason to upgrade the DAC?
1b. If I buy the Mini-DAC, will I ever have any reason to upgrade the transistor head-amp again?
2a. If I buy the Duet, will I ever have any reason to upgrade the DAC again?
2b. If I buy the Duet, will I ever have any reason to upgrade the transistor head-amp again?

I'm kinda looking for a "final purchase", so ... if the DACs are equally good, but the difference is in the head-amp, maybe Duet plus an added head-amp is the way to go, and maybe cheaper than / better than the Mini-DAC? Or ... or ... or ... ?

PS: You're right about core audio. It seems that the threads I found had something to do with whether core audio was involved in the decoding process of FLAC (which it seems it hasn't), not with the output from the system and to the peripheral units. The Cog developer told me so as well. So, I can keep using Cog, which imho has the best file support (in addition to FLAC: APE, WavPack, 24bit/96kHz and so on). I also discovered a player called Play, but haven't tested it yet.
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post #21 of 113
3/27/08 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solan View Post
A friend of mine recommends always buying the component one step up from the one you have decided on, just to make sure you don't regret anything, and as I understand, the mini-DAC is the step up from the Duet. But it's a step which means an almost doubling of price, so I will not automatically follow my friend's advice in this case.
The minidac is balanced and standalone. Those features are a step up from the duet. I wouldn't necessarily say the sound is.
Quote:
1a. If I buy the Mini-DAC, will I ever have any reason to upgrade the DAC?
1b. If I buy the Mini-DAC, will I ever have any reason to upgrade the transistor head-amp again?
2a. If I buy the Duet, will I ever have any reason to upgrade the DAC again?
2b. If I buy the Duet, will I ever have any reason to upgrade the transistor head-amp again?
1a that's up to you
1b that's up to you
2a that's up to you
2b that's up to you
Quote:
I'm kinda looking for a "final purchase", so ... if the DACs are equally good, but the difference is in the head-amp, maybe Duet plus an added head-amp is the way to go, and maybe cheaper than / better than the Mini-DAC? Or ... or ... or ... ?

PS: You're right about core audio. It seems that the threads I found had something to do with whether core audio was involved in the decoding process of FLAC (which it seems it hasn't), not with the output from the system and to the peripheral units. The Cog developer told me so as well. So, I can keep using Cog, which imho has the best file support (in addition to FLAC: APE, WavPack, 24bit/96kHz and so on). I also discovered a player called Play, but haven't tested it yet.
Core audio does lots of things. There is part of core audio that will do encoding and decoding of audio. That's not the part we're talking about.
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post #22 of 113
3/27/08 at 8:25am
Thread Starter 

Thank you for good help i this thread, Grawk

Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post
The minidac is balanced and standalone. Those features are a step up from the duet. I wouldn't necessarily say the sound is.
Stand-alone? In the sense of power supply? Or other features? (Is the Mini-DAC also Mac-only?)

Interesting, though, if the sound on the two is equally good. That would point toward the Duet.

As for "balanced", that is a new term for me. I saw the thread urging people here to write about it on Wikipedia, but don't quite understand what it means and what the debated benefits are.

Quote:
Core audio does lots of things. There is part of core audio that will do encoding and decoding of audio. That's not the part we're talking about.
It took me a while to figure that one out, but I did in the end.
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post #23 of 113
3/27/08 at 8:29am
The minidac doesn't need a computer. It takes audio via firewire (or usb, or nothing, depending on model), and outputs it via xlr and minijack. The duet takes audio from the computer via firewire or from the analog inputs, and outputs it to the computer and the analog outputs.

I'm not going to tell you which you'd prefer, because the decision is yours. You can't go wrong with either. If you'll ever use it without a computer, get the minidac. If you'd ever like to use the input, get the duet. Both are very very good.
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post #24 of 113
3/27/08 at 9:25am
Thread Starter 

Not quite sure I see all the options ...

Thanks, Grawk. Sorry about the growing multitude of questions, but: I didn't find any FireWire port or analog input:




With "use without a computer", do you mean portable MP3 players, or other inputs? Just wondering since I don't quite see how to use it without a computer if there is no audio input.
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post #25 of 113
3/27/08 at 9:45am
The current minidac is firewire, not usb. The previous version was usb.

The minidac doesn't have analog inputs, it has aes, coax, and toslink inputs. Any of those can be hooked to any number of devices that aren't a computer. Only firewire and usb are computer only interfaces, of the options on the minidacs.

Examples of devices with digital outputs: dvd player, cd player, digital mixing console, dat recorder, xbox, digital equalizer, appletv, ...
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post #26 of 113
3/27/08 at 10:02am
Thread Starter 
Aha! Thanks. Let me see if I can recap:

* Headphone sound is equally good from the jacks of both devices.
* Only the mini-DAC can take input from non-computer digital devices (like digital output from CD player)
* Only the Duet can take analog input (say, from an LP turntable) and convert to digital signal, making it a stripped combo of mini-Me and mini-DAC.

Since I might want to rip some of my LPs, the scale tips in the direction of the Duet, but the nagging doubt remains, of course, if the (head-)amp of the mini-DAC might be better, and whether I would make frequent use of the 192kHz (I have 1 LP rip at that sampling frequency) ...
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post #27 of 113
3/27/08 at 10:08am
The headamp on the duet is better, imho. The only time that isn't true is if you use hd580/600/650 and drive them balanced from the xlr outs on the minidac.
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post #28 of 113
3/27/08 at 10:51am
Thread Starter 
Better and better for the Duet ... How is the quality of the line output (to other amplifier systems, like a tube amp or the home stereo)? Same with both systems?

Hmmm ... I guess I am at the point of being convinced, really, but these questions just pop up. Now I just need to find the point at which the dollar is at its lowest against my home currency. AND an outlet that gives me a good price, or free shipping if the $495,- is a fixed minimum. ... I see two that sell for 400 at eBay. Would that be a reliable outlet for this kind of object?

PS: I read that the mini-DAC has something called "dual clock" for handling the input bitstream to minimize jitter. I couldn't find anything on gthat for the Duet.
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post #29 of 113
3/27/08 at 11:15am
Just go to a guitar center or sam ash and buy one, and if you like it, you're golden, and if not, return it for a full refund. There's not a lot of discounting that goes on.

You'll need to grab 1/4" to rca adapters for output and rca to xlr-M adapters for input.
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post #30 of 113
3/27/08 at 11:31am
Thread Starter 
Thanks again, grawk. I'm coming to the US for a family visit this summer, and thought I'd buy it online with delivery to the family's address. Saves time away from them, and saves me the disappointment (and the risk of not even getting one at US prices) if the unit isn't in right there and then.

Thanks the the tip about the adapters.
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