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What's the point of big fat thick high quality cables? - Page 4

post #46 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzx View Post
Ofcourse it can be mesured god damnit. People fly to the moon and you think that we cant diagnose electron flow over copper or silver? Cable maniacs are a deaf crowd that doesnt listen to anything and says the same **** all over again.

There is no hope.
Experiments: Do Coat Hangers Sound As Good Monster Cables? - read this for Christs sake. Cant you people read???
The way you put it and the blindfold test makes a high end cable guy want to CRY. Now what do I do with all the new MONSTER HDMI cables I bought for my new PIONEER ELITE AV reciever - ELITE BLU RAY disk player -new HDMI LCD tvs and HDMI HD TIVO when I have so many coat hangers???
(just kidding)
post #47 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie1 View Post
The way you put it and the blindfold test makes a high end cable guy want to CRY. Now what do I do with all the new MONSTER HDMI cables I bought for my new PIONEER ELITE AV reciever - ELITE BLU RAY disk player -new HDMI LCD tvs and HDMI HD TIVO when I have so many coat hangers???
(just kidding)
I don't know abut coat hangers/monster, but if you happen to have any BJC that you want to sell for cheap, just gimme a shout, I will get all the analog IC's you have from them, if they are inside a reasonable length and price...looking for bargains here!!!!
post #48 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller View Post
I don't know abut coat hangers/monster, but if you happen to have any BJC that you want to sell for cheap, just gimme a shout, I will get all the analog IC's you have from them, if they are inside a reasonable length and price...looking for bargains here!!!!
All of my interconects and cables are mostly ALO JENA LABS with some RNB AUDIO-CablePro and Silver Dragon, but I don't plan on giving up on them any time soon.
post #49 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzx View Post
Ofcourse it can be mesured god damnit. People fly to the moon and you think that we cant diagnose electron flow over copper or silver? Cable maniacs are a deaf crowd that doesnt listen to anything and says the same **** all over again.

There is no hope.
Experiments: Do Coat Hangers Sound As Good Monster Cables? - read this for Christs sake. Cant you people read???
If only you could make be some balanced male XLR to Senn terminated coathangers - I'm open minded enough to give it a try. Wonder if I could get a set in white paint and bronze, as they will no doubt sound different?

Otherwise - pot / kettle / black.

Interesting the parallels between these enduring toipics and the lack of archeological evidence supporting truths generally accepted from Exodus and Kings, given the plethora of such shows on today. You'd think we could prove many things - and yet...
post #50 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzx View Post
Ofcourse it can be mesured god damnit. People fly to the moon and you think that we cant diagnose electron flow over copper or silver? Cable maniacs are a deaf crowd that doesnt listen to anything and says the same **** all over again.

There is no hope.
Experiments: Do Coat Hangers Sound As Good Monster Cables? - read this for Christs sake. Cant you people read???
Settle Down Beavis! There is no reason to get worked up over thick cables. Go make some ICs out of paper clips, coat hangers, buss wire, or even pennies
post #51 of 82
An interesting experiment would be a partially blind listening test. Take a 6 gang stereo selector and hook up two "premium" interconnects and four from Radio Shack.

Cover one "premium" cable and three RS cables from the view of the listener. Leave one "premium" cable and one RS cable exposed.

The listener would have two known, visible reference cables. The test would be to determine which of the four hidden cables is the "premium" one. Let the listener choose source, headphones and have complete control over the switcher with no time limits.

That would eliminate much of the so-called unfairness in DBT.
post #52 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzx View Post
Ofcourse it can be mesured god damnit. People fly to the moon and you think that we cant diagnose electron flow over copper or silver? Cable maniacs are a deaf crowd that doesnt listen to anything and says the same **** all over again.

There is no hope.
Experiments: Do Coat Hangers Sound As Good Monster Cables? - read this for Christs sake. Cant you people read???
thank you very much for your inspiring language and diction.
post #53 of 82
I think this is the point where everybody should returned their nice expensive cables were they came from!
post #54 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvs_75 View Post
I think this is the point where everybody should returned their nice expensive cables were they came from!
...or just donate them to me.
post #55 of 82
The problem with these DBT tests is (and I've said this before) they only test a particular system in a particular room with particular components. People regularly use them to generate conclusions which the tests do not prove at all, let alone the sweeping generalisations I've seen come as a result of them.

I'm quite sure I could put someone in front of a very high-end system carefully selected by friends of mine with over 30 years of experience each in hi-fi and do a DBT test of Radio Shack cables vs. whatever they select as best matched for the system where it's obvious as night and day the difference in sound. Does it prove anything? Only that you can't make sweeping generalisations.

Honestly, the whole testing thing is as shoddy as the manufacturers who are criticised for selling snake oil.
post #56 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
TI'm quite sure I could put someone in front of a very high-end system carefully selected by friends of mine with over 30 years of experience each in hi-fi and do a DBT test of Radio Shack cables vs. whatever they select as best matched for the system where it's obvious as night and day the difference in sound.
Many people are quite sure that they could pass a DBT test like the one you describe. Yet no one ever does it.

Quote:
Does it prove anything?
Actually, yes, it would.
post #57 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
The problem with these DBT tests is (and I've said this before) they only test a particular system in a particular room with particular components. People regularly use them to generate conclusions which the tests do not prove at all, let alone the sweeping generalisations I've seen come as a result of them.

I'm quite sure I could put someone in front of a very high-end system carefully selected by friends of mine with over 30 years of experience each in hi-fi and do a DBT test of Radio Shack cables vs. whatever they select as best matched for the system where it's obvious as night and day the difference in sound. Does it prove anything? Only that you can't make sweeping generalisations.

Honestly, the whole testing thing is as shoddy as the manufacturers who are criticised for selling snake oil.
That's not really a problem at all. It just proves that on whatever level of audiophile expenditure the cables are worth what % of the sound. My guess is very little. But hey I used QED bronze!
post #58 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Febs View Post
Many people are quite sure that they could pass a DBT test like the one you describe. Yet no one ever does it.
No, it means nobody you've ever read about has ever reported tests with such a result. Remember that people who conduct these tests set out to prove what they believe.

I come from a family of scientists. Every single DBT test I've read has incorrect conclusions.
post #59 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
No, it means nobody you've ever read about has ever reported tests with such a result. Remember that people who conduct these tests set out to prove what they believe.

I come from a family of scientists. Every single DBT test I've read has incorrect conclusions.
We did here a test in which one member sent to the home of a few members three cables all alike externaly, just to indentify them, in the comfort of their homes, and using the gear and sound they are familiar with, among 7, only 1 could indentify them, (and it could be due maybe a coincidence )

That in bold is also not true, we have seen tests done just for comparison sake, I recall one done in a few speaker amps, some time ago, in which they included the inexpensive T-Amps, the result was just to rank them, it showed results that will amaze a few of us....

The problem is not with the DBT, the problem is always with the DBT in cables, when they offer results that may prove what they do not want to hear, then they find 100 excuses to dismiss the test, but the funny thing is that they never provide any other better....
post #60 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
I come from a family of scientists. Every single DBT test I've read has incorrect conclusions.
How, then, would you purport to conduct a study that would show whether there is a statistically significant difference between cables, regardless of preexisting bias?

Both the scientific method and any form of rigorous statistical data analysis require the formulation of a hypothesis at some point.

While I do agree that most stat analyses more or less start with the base assumption that there is no difference between "treatments", that certainly does not affect the outcome of the analysis if the conclusion is that there is no significant difference at a 95% or greater confidence level.

Let's say that you selected the components and listening room and two sets of cables that you have concluded are different, one obviously better than the other (meaning, that it would not take extended listening to form a definite conclusion.) Then, from a pool of audiophiles that also claim to hear differences, a random group of 20 is selected, and individuals complete their controlled evaluations alone without bias from others.

What would your response be to that test if it concluded "no difference at the 99% confidence level"?
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