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What's the point of big fat thick high quality cables? - Page 2

post #16 of 82
I think this question isn't going to hold much significance for cable believers. Since when has science ever played a role in determining whether or not a cable is good or not? I don't mean this in a pejorative way - I'm simply saying that cable believers trust their ears, and what sounds good to them, so for the cable believers, they don't care whether or not it makes sense scientifically, so long as it sounds good.

As for the non-cable believers, well, they've been saying this kind of stuff for years.
post #17 of 82
Here we go again... (yawn)... see you in about 30 pages when I'm having my morning coffee.
post #18 of 82
^ just lock it now ; )
post #19 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by sejarzo View Post
IMHO, I think one needs to look at the underlying science and avoid anthropomorphic terms that skew the reality of the situation.

Would you suggest removing all resistors from the circuits so the electrons don't have to "fight against" those, too? Resistors exist in circuits to reduce voltage and current....any negative effect of proper solder joints is minimal.

And what properties make a metal an "audiophile" metal?
Really? Then applying this same logic, how do you call the negative effect of having copper 99.9999999 versus simply copper 99.9 pure, or better, the differences in conductivity between silver and cooper. If you look closer, they are far closer, than the differences between cooper and tin/lead/silver alloys used in the solder of all boards...

About the resistors in boards, as a side note, not all what you see in an amp, are in the signal path, you need to have them though in certain points, but most of them are for current and voltage control, or interaction between them, in the circuit...
post #20 of 82
ibtl
post #21 of 82
in 4 1
post #22 of 82
An example I've found that can be somewhat held as truth, is a buddy made a car audio set-up and absolutely LOVED IT. I can't remember the specifics, but I remember my buddy who ORIGINALLY made the system used like 4 gauge wire for SPEAKERS and pretty much throughout and although I can't remember, I remember the gauge/thickness of the wire going to the battery and ground was HUGE. Like abnormally large.

A friend of his with the SAME SUV copy cat-ed his system, only he used regular "mid-grade" speaker wire and like 6 or 4 gauge wire for the battery and ground. Same custom enclosure, same materials, same speakers, same dynamat-ing, same locations, everything. Basically a MIRROR of the original, car included. End result, it sounded NOWHERE NEAR the same. It seemed to lack the weight and heft in the music, and sounded anemic in comparison. Granted, it wasn't like a largely night and day "your system sucks" difference, but it was easily blind A/B-able with the same amp settings and CD playing, without a doubt.
post #23 of 82
He probably got a bum set of speakers. There can be a considerable difference in sound between one speaker and another, even of the same model. Much more than the difference between different wires.

See ya
Steve
post #24 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by oicdn View Post
An example I've found that can be somewhat held as truth, is a buddy made a car audio set-up and absolutely LOVED IT. I can't remember the specifics, but I remember my buddy who ORIGINALLY made the system used like 4 gauge wire for SPEAKERS and pretty much throughout and although I can't remember, I remember the gauge/thickness of the wire going to the battery and ground was HUGE. Like abnormally large.

A friend of his with the SAME SUV copy cat-ed his system, only he used regular "mid-grade" speaker wire and like 6 or 4 gauge wire for the battery and ground. Same custom enclosure, same materials, same speakers, same dynamat-ing, same locations, everything. Basically a MIRROR of the original, car included. End result, it sounded NOWHERE NEAR the same. It seemed to lack the weight and heft in the music, and sounded anemic in comparison. Granted, it wasn't like a largely night and day "your system sucks" difference, but it was easily blind A/B-able with the same amp settings and CD playing, without a doubt.
If the cable was not getting hot, the rating for current was good, so there should not be any differnce. Even while some car setups can drag anormally amounts of current given the limited voltage, I odnot think he may need more than AWG 6-4 for that setup....I agree with Steve, probably he got a set of bum speakers, or at elast one of them...
post #25 of 82
Or he wired one of the speakers out of phase.
post #26 of 82
Do we know that the components used in Hi-Fi devices are Lo-Fi quality. Is there a high quality solder to use for audio?
post #27 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by indysmith View Post
Also if you think about the actual circuit inside of all your audiophile gear, It's going to have been put together with SOLDER. That's not an audiophile metal at all. It's a cheap alloy, and does not conduct electricity well.

Actually there is high grade silver solder that I'd imagine is used in the higher end audiophile gear.

As for the cables, think of it this way:

Electrons actually flow on the outside of the cable, not in the center. The thicker the cable the more surface area for them to travel, this means more power can be pushed on the cable. If you have an inferior cable (copper alloy) the different metals will have different resistances, therefor messing with your signal. Any disruption in the signal can cause distortion or general loss of audio quality. If you have a pure copper or silver cable, with a high quality smooth surface, there is less chance of having something mess up your music. As for the small connectors...I'm lost on that one as well.
post #28 of 82
What are people really referring to by "small connectors"?

I know the OP referred to mini connectors, but look at the pins in a Senn HD580/600/650 cable...they are tiny, but are handling the highest amount of voltage and current in the whole signal chain.

However, they are relatively large compared to the windings in the voice coil of the driver, right?

So maybe we should make all of it bigger....but wait, then it takes more power to drive it....so somewhere along the line, a reasonable decision has to be made. There are always tradeoffs.

One of the biggest problems in this debate is that some people want to equate visual prettiness or visible size with a phenomenon that doesn't require either. Analogies between electrical current and water flowing to help understand fundamentals of electricity are just that--they aren't meant to be taken further.
post #29 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinkus79 View Post
As for the cables, think of it this way:

Electrons actually flow on the outside of the cable, not in the center. The thicker the cable the more surface area for them to travel, this means more power can be pushed on the cable.
If we are discussing interconnects at audio frequencies, that's a misconception that's been frequently disproven.
post #30 of 82
Silver solder typically has a very small amount of silver in it. It's also a pain to work with, doesn't always stick well and causes other trouble. A good, solid connection is far more important than a trivial amount of a precious metal. I use 60/40 solder and crimp every connection hard with a pair of pliers before soldering. I haven't had any failures in 10 years of work and no cold solders, either. This isn't brain surgery, anyone can make good joints. A solid connection trumps everything else.

You can argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin with skin effect, properties of metals, and so on. But ordinary materials, correctly applied ALWAYS work, sound good and hold up for years. If you want to jump on the mystical thinking wagon, fine. Everyone else keep in mind that the basics work great.
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