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Need a speaker suggestion... - Page 4

post #46 of 80
Thread Starter 
Well, now I'm just overloaded with options...it doesn't help that once you get "up there", everything tends to get rave reviews.

I've narrowed down as the more interesting ones the Nautilus 805s which are actually a little too big and their price wasn't something I wanted to quite hit, the Swan M1s which are very tempting with their ribbon tweeter for the price, and the Triangle Titus, which are pretty cheap for the reviews they get. High, medium, and low price point basically.

But I need some help with the amp side now...

1. What exactly is biwiring?

2. I have the McCormack which could act as a minimalist preamp, minus any fancy controls...would this be enough, so that I could go for a power amp? Or should I get a nice integrated? How do preamps and amps connect together? Been using all in one boxes all my life so I have no idea here.
post #47 of 80
Prepare to spend a lot of money!

The amp that you will need will depend on which headphone you buy. Don't forget about speaker cables, which cost a lot more than ICs, also you will need to get some more of those as well, which must be match to what they are being connected to. Also, you must be able to place the speakers just right, and there will be only one spot in the whole room that they will sound their best. That's just for starters, so wonder I like headphones better!

I hope your ears are ok, and that everything works out for you in that matter.
post #48 of 80
go here for all the bi-wring info http://www.whathifi.com/scripts/sadbuttrue.asp?id=3

You don't need 2 amps or 2 sets of speakers terminals to bi-wire
post #49 of 80
Biwiring is using two sets of wires for each speaker (total of 4 conductors instead of 2). The idea is to isolate the impact of low frequencies (which usually have more energy and large current pulses) from the high frequencies by having them travel through separate wires on their way to speakers. Large current from low frequencies would cause larger voltage drop which would also affect higher frequencies (?). Speakers that support this have two sets of terminals on them, usually connected by a big piece of metal. One set of terminals is for high frequency drivers, the other for low frequency drivers. You remove this jumper and connect wires. These kind of speakers also allow for "bi-amping" where you use two stereo amplifiers (total of 4 channels), and each speaker gets two of those channels.

People debate whether biwiring yields significant benefits or not. My guess is that if you use some kind of fancy wire, like those that have a few thick conductors, surrounded by isolated number of smaller ones, then again surrounded by yet smaller wires, etc. etc., or similar kind of stuff, you don't have need for bi-wiring. My speaker manual claims that benefits are subtle but noticeable, while bi-amping achieves greater improvements. In any case, I ordered bi-wire which should arrive next week so I'll be able to compare it myself. At the moment I use standard wiring...

By the way, you can also audition Paradigm Studio S-20 bookshelf speakers. Should be easy to find and they're not particularly expensive.
post #50 of 80
Hey vertigo sorry to hear about your ears. I ended up selling my grados because of the pain they caused me after long listening sessions. I am interested to see what you find that does you rawesome headhone setup justice.
post #51 of 80
I listened to my speakers a couple of months and then ordered a second identical power amp so that I could bi-amp. There was nothing subtle to the difference it made in my system. The soundstage and imaging was greatly improved by the absence of channel cross talk.

Here is another very good link on the subject. (I believe I posted this before)

http://www.sstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm

Rick
post #52 of 80

WHY STOP THERE?

If you are looking for small speakers that are affordable, and have lots of detail the Paradigm Studio 20s, and the NHT 1.5s are good choices also.
As for amps that are affordable check out Acurus, Adcom, Arcam, B&K, Bryston, Carver, Hafler, NAD, Parasound, and Rotel.
post #53 of 80
Thread Starter 
Has anybody ever heard of Gallo Acoustic's Nucleus Micro speakers? They seem to have very good reviews, and the size would be perfect if they are good speakers.

post #54 of 80
Quote:
Originally posted by raymondlin

You don't need 2 amps or 2 sets of speakers terminals to bi-wire [/B]
The major benefit of biwiring is that different frequency ranges are passed over the different cables. This can only occur if one set of wires goes to the tweeter (s) and another goes to the woofer(s) (tri-wiring etc. is also possible in theory). This can't happen if the wires are rejoined at the speaker. If there is a single set of terminals on the speaker, all frequencies must go through all wires, and you lose most of the benefit of biwiring.
post #55 of 80
Quote:
Originally posted by Vertigo-1
Has anybody ever heard of Gallo Acoustic's Nucleus Micro speakers? They seem to have very good reviews, and the size would be perfect if they are good speakers.
Yeah, we have a store here by us that sells them. They are pretty good. But you can't bi-wire them. (See how I braid that sub-thread back in?) The only problem I, personally, have with them is that I think I would have a hard time taking them seriously based on their size. I'd be tempted to bat them around and not worry too much about them.

You could also pick the most audiophile color. (Hint: chrome or piano-gloss black.)

Also, they _definitely_ need a sub. I believe they're even designed that way. On the lighter (snicker) side, they don't need much of a stand. Pretty much an inverted coat hanger would work.

Hey, speaking of which, did you see those speakers that you suspend? That would fit in any room.
post #56 of 80
Quote:
Has anybody ever heard of Gallo Acoustic's Nucleus Micro speakers?
Vert, I've seen some decent reviews, but always from more "consumer" audio mags. None of the "higher end" pubs have given them really good reviews. They actually come with a sub that's about the size of a bowling ball

I actually haven't heard them, but I called around to a few placed that carry them (earlier this year) and was told that even a setup like the PSB Alpha Minis with PSB sub would beat the Nucleus system out.

I'm excited to see that the Triangle Titus is on your short list. If you audition them, please let us know what you think. They get *way* too much praise based on their price tag
post #57 of 80
Quote:
Originally posted by Vertigo-1

1. What exactly is biwiring?

2. I have the McCormack which could act as a minimalist preamp, minus any fancy controls...would this be enough, so that I could go for a power amp? Or should I get a nice integrated? How do preamps and amps connect together? Been using all in one boxes all my life so I have no idea here.
Biwiring is running two sets of speaker cables between the amp and the speaker. If the speaker is set up for biwiring, the crossover in the speaker will act as a high-pass filter for the tweeter(s), and a low-pass filter for the woofer(s). As with all things about cables, you'll get all sorts of arguments about whether this is worth it or not. You'll wind up paying close to twice as much for speaker cable if you do it, which can add up if you're going to use good cable.

The advice that I received, that has worked for me, is that biwiring provides a very audible benefit, to the point where if it comes to a choice between a single run of expensive cable, and a biwire run of a lesser cable, the biwire run is probably the way to go. YMMV.

If the McCormack has line outputs, it can be used as a preamp. Whether it is sufficient for your needs depends on what you want to use it for. How many inputs does it have? How many sources will you want to connect to it? Will you want an FM tuner? Will you want to connect a video source? Tape deck? CD burner? etc. Note that you may want to eventually use your preamp for video as well as audio. In that case, you may want something that can provide multichannel capability (also useful if SACD or DVD-A catches on). If you only have a single source, such as CD, and the CD player has a volume control, you may not need a preamp at all, but may be able to connect directly to a power amp. You have many choices, but they depend on what your goals for your system are.
post #58 of 80

Re: WHY STOP THERE?

Quote:
Originally posted by CRESCENDOPOWER
As for amps that are affordable check out Acurus, Adcom, Arcam, B&K, Bryston, Carver, Hafler, NAD, Parasound, and Rotel.
Speaking of Rotel, the local surplus electronics store has some nice deals on Rotel amps... (a small 10W model for $100, might be just what Vertigo needs...)
post #59 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
You have many choices, but they depend on what your goals for your system are.
Many choices indeed, and I'm getting migraines from staring at review after review after review of speakers.

Ideally I want some part of the system to allow for remote controlled access to the volume knob...especially when the speakers start cranking out the decibels, I don't want to exactly have to step up to them to turn them down. Given the McCormack doesn't have that, I'd probably need a CDP that has variable outs (I decided to return the Jupiter in the end, in order to finance speakers). Or ditch the McCormack for an integrated that has a remote. In the event I do ditch headphones, I'd probably take the integrated route.

As for mutichannel stuff, I don't see myself having the space to play around with that kind of a configuration for a couple of years still...so I'm not too worried about that, and I don't want to worry about that especially if it means I'll need mutichannel compatible output ends, like an amp that's "multichannel compatible". Getting a multichannel source though is a piece of cake nowdays (like that Sony DVP-NS500V I've been eyeing at Circuit City, DVD/multichannel SACD player for a mere $289, and the DVD side of it is totally loaded with things like progressive scan)...just that I wouldn't have the space to bother with the whole 5.1 speaker setup.
post #60 of 80
I can see something tragic happening, people here have nominated loads of speakers. Vertigo have been reading up loads about them, then he orders them on the net, buy an amp and to discover that they sound ***** together. it's all good that the reviews say this sound good with this or that but chances are that they don't listen to your kind of music and most importantly. They don't have your ears, I feel like I've said this before but for the amount of money you are going to spent, I hate to see you be anything but a big grin on your face afterwards.

There's a general rule in HiFi (may be not so much in headphones since everybody have more then a pair), You Audition.

The higher up the ladder you go, the more picky the components are to get the synegy right. Most low to mid level set up will work quite happily together but for the stuff you are aiming for, a slight imbalance will make the system unmusical and sound out of place.

Speakers are nothing like Headphones, Vertigo already found out that postage cost an arm and a leg if he is not happy with it. and you can't just put it in the cupboard and get another pair. They cost $1000+ and they are big. You don't see many people having a 3 or 4 pair sitting in the house, do you?

And if you have to use the treble or bass tone control to make it the way you like, you have bought the WRONG amp or set up in the first place. Of course, Cables and interconnectors can help to set the system to more of your liking, but cables are meant to be transparent so you should rely on this method too much. That's why dealers have demo rooms, or they let you borrow it for a home demo. it's all part of the fun, sitting there with $5000+ of HiFi and they let you play with it for a few hours. You don't like it in the end, you don't have to buy it.

Bi-wiring or bi-amp is another way to improve your system (bi-wiring is more of a subjective thing), you can do it straight away or use the extra money and buy cables and cost twice as much but only single wire. Try both to see which have the greater benifits, you can always use seom quailty speaker cables to replace the jumper bar to improve the sound a bit.

Vertigo - I know it's hard for you to audition, but I am afriad you might spent all this money and won't be completly satisfied with it in the end. Can't you wait until Christmas Holidays and auditions it when you get home?

Of course, there are a few setup that are known to work well together, Cyrus and Misson (mainly because they used to be 1 company). I've heard them (Cyrus CD7 + Cyrus 7 amp/PSX-R + Mission 782 speakers) and they are no less then magically muscial, and for $5000, they should be. However, just changing the speakers to The Castle Severn 2SE (same price), they sound out of place. All the detail are there but I couldn't stand it, it might sound OK to someone never heard it with the Mission but after A/B comparison, there's no contest.
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