Musicians Advocate

I'm in the middle of dealing with them on an Amazon transaction gone bad, too.

I was searching for Reason 4 on Amazon and saw they were selling it for $279, so I bought it. Being suspicious of a too good to be true deal, I emailed them and asked them to confirm that it was the full version, not the adapted, academic versions or an upgrade. They responded and told that if it didn't have "academic" or "adapted" in the title, then it was the full version.

When I got home from work, I had a shipment confirmation in the hotmail account that's tied to my Amazon account (hotmail is blocked at work) and sure enough, it's the academic version. I immediately called them. They told me the academic version was the exact same thing as the full version, it's just at a steeply discounted rate.

Still a little skeptical I called around and finally got in touch with someone at Sweetwater. They explained that the academic version is the full version, you just can't upgrade it (which is why I wanted the full version to begin with. Future upgrades to Reason are only $130 or so).

I called Musicians Advocate back, and spoke to a guy named Chris. To begin with, he started arguing with me saying the Amazon product page specifically says "Academic", which it doesn't. He then said to refuse the Fed Ex shipment when it arrives and they will refund the money. I asked him for a name so I could deal with someone directly to get this resolved, and he would not give me a last name. He was also extremely rude.

A week later, my "expedited" shipment finally reaches the local Fed Ex station (traveling from Las Vegas to 40 miles south of Salt Lake City took a week. Glad I paid $50 for their "expedited" shipping...). I called Fed Ex and they refused the package before it was delivered. Strangely enough, it arrived at Musicians Advocate about two days after that refusal.

Three days go by and I get an email from another member of their staff:

Subject: RE: Your Amazon Order on our order (Reason 4.0)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 15:13:42 -0700
From: support@musiciansadvocate.com

Marcus,
We received back the Reason 4.0 software that we shipped to you from your Amazon sale.
Why was it refused? Did you refuse it or did this get delivered to the wrong address.
Please advise


This was from a guy named Bradley who I think runs the place. Obviously he hasn't spoken to Chris and has no idea what's going on. I responded two days ago and told him that I was to receive a refund. I still don't have my refund and I haven't heard anything back from them despite another email since asking about the status of this transaction.

This is the worst experience I've ever had. Not only are they terrible sellers, hocking lesser products at regular prices, but their shipping is terrible and their customer service is abysmal.

Bottom line, go somewhere else. Even if their price looks tempting, don't risk it.

P.S. I ended up buying a real version of Reason 4 from Sweetwater. Those guys are incredible. Great company. I got the free shipping. It shipped on a Saturday after noon and it arrived at my door step the following Tuesday.

When my AKG 271 went lost travelling by UPS Musicians Advocate told me that they don't assunme responsibility for an item once it ships. They in as so many words said it was my problem and no refund or other compensation would be made. I hate leaving negative feedback but this company was the first company for anything that has told me vbasically they didn't care. They shipped . Not their problem

These guys also go by the name "openboxmusic" on eBay.

I purchased a pair of headphones from them, and paid for Express shipping.

After 2 days I received an email claiming the item had shipped, however FedEx did not show the item in their possession until a week after the close of the sale (I have no idea what happened to the other 5 days).
Little did I realize that this was the first sign of trouble.

When my package finally arrived the box contained all the accessories but NO HEADPHONES!!!!

I immediately contacted them, through eBay. Two days and two emails later I get a rather curt reply stating they needed time to "investigate" and to allow 24-48 hours. (Personally I and no concern for the cause only that I receive a replacement immediately)

After 48 hours and no reply from them I again contacted them, and was told that an RMA would arrive in my email shortly and that as soon as I had handed the return to the FedEx carrier they would ship the replacement, so I should notify them upon pick-up by FedEx.
I did exactly this, they did not.

After another week of unanswered email the FedEx tracking showed they had received the RMA'd package, but I had yet to receive a package or tracking number. When I again contacted them I was told I was to refer my communications to their Customer Service Dept.

I have no idea why it is the customer's job to satisfy their internal needs rather than they satisfying the customer, but I did this.
Customer service gave me lip-service, but no tracking number.
I emailed again, this time to the Attention of the Customer Service Manager. He wrote back stating that he had given it to his shipping manager and I would receive a Tracking Number within 24 hours.

24 hours came and went with no tracking number.

In light of the events and their lack of responsiveness (and my patience having been exhausted) I opened a PayPal dispute to protect myself, which begins with a "communication" effort to find a resolve before it gets escalated to a full-fledged 'Dispute' where PayPal takes over to resolve it. This brought an immediate email response from the vendor, but stating that I had 'screwed up' and now it was out of their hands because I had filed a Dispute.
I responded that this was only the communication stage, but that unless a tracking number arrived within 24 hours I would escalate it to a dispute. No response.

24 hours later, true to my word I escalated it to a Dispute with PayPal.

Approximately 2 hours later I received an email stating that the headphones had shipped and that I needed to close the dispute or they would leave me negative feedback. The package arrived the next day!

Why they could not do this in the first place is beyond me.
In any case, I will not do business with them again, under either of their names.

buyer beware!

Musician's Advocate - don't risk it

Years on and MA are still dodgy.

I don't know why I chose to buy off Musician's Advocate (MA)
- all the signs seem to be there now that they should be avoided. Some bad mentions in forums, and very unprofessional replies to bad feedback. It seems to me now that they'd probably get more bad feedback but for dragging transactions out.

I ordered a brand new set of AKG K271 MKII headphones from MA. They were way cheaper than I could get them for in Australia, but only a little cheaper than other US sellers. They didn't despatch them for a week or two, but they got to Australia very quickly. What I received was a pair of AKG K271 Studio (previous model) in previously opened and damaged retail packaging (note...shipping box was pristinge and still sealed when I received it). They were DOA, with sound coming from only one driver and the trim on the earcups knocked off. The accessories usually shipped with K271 MKII headphones was nowhere to be seen (extra earpads and cable - likely due to these not being K271 MKII headphones)! Strangely, the retail packaging had two squares cut out with a box-cutter or the like - not sure what that was about.

I immediately contacte MA, whoc advised that they'd look after me, no expense. 3 weeks passed and I contacted them again to advise that PayPal's 45 day limit for claims was approaching. They said "go ahead and raise a claim". After this point, MA refused to do anything further, asserting that it was all up to PayPal.

PayPal in the end deemed that the item did not meet the guidelines for 'not as described' (covers defectived items and - well - items not as described). Now...there are 4 points in PayPal's policy that I think they should have applied, roughly corresponding to the following:

MA sent me K271 Studio headphones, NOT K271 MKII as described

The headphones were DOA

The item received was incomplete - i.e. did not include specified accessories

The packaging indicated that the item was not 'brand new'.

So...not much can be done from Australia to put pressure on a US seller...but I have had a whinge to the ACCC about PayPal not backing up their Buyer Protection program. The only answer I received from PayPal after several e-mails was that my item did not meet guidelines for 'not as described' and they reserve the right to do anything they please thank you very much.

By the time all this was done (some months) I could no longer leave negative feedback. Guess I'll just have to rant on forums.

I won't go into details on fineprint in the sale listing - but suffice to say I went through it top to bottom, and no reasonable person would have expected anything other than a brand spanking new from the factory pair of AKG K271MKII headphones. Full stop.

I should mention that I have repaired the headphones myself - glued back on the trim, and fixed a faulty switch (the cause of no sound in one earcup). The K271 truly is a lovely headphone for tracking and a even little mixing.

Oh...and MA also seems to imply that they are authorised dealers of all this stuff - something I seriously doubt (although AKG are yet to reply to me on the matter - very disappointing AKG)!

I suspect that most people get lucky with MA, but when things go wrong don't expect them to honour their promises!