Why all the cable haters?  

You've probably just opened a huge can of worms, but basically those who see no difference between a coat hanger and an interconnect don't have anywhere to discuss why, not that there would be a point to that anyway, but still they discuss here since it is the only place and it is an open discussion. Plus the laws of physics do make some of the claims of cable makes seem rather dubious. Personally I don't go listening to coat hangers, but I don't buy $1,000 cables either. Both sides have their points and so long as this is the only place where this type of discussion is allowed it will continue here and will be generally unpleasant to read.

Feel free to post your experiences.

You are at the correct forum. There are many posts discussing the value of cables and tweaks. I expect future posts to further clarify the benefits of cables and tweaks. We're bound to get to the bottom of this eventually.

.

they claim to be saving the children.

Probably the same reason people hate and fear snakes....

LOL, you must be new here.

It wasn't always this way; this forum has totally degenerated over the last 3 years.

The reasons are manifold:

-----------WARNING, OFFENSIVE & INCONVENIENT FACTUAL OBSERVATIONS AHEAD--------

1. Most head-fiers are young and new to audio (not all, but let's say 70%+). So they also usually lack the kinds of systems capable of allowing them to hear differences in cables.

2. Upon arrival here, they've just been told they need headphones they can barely afford, amps and better sources they can't, and now cables. Cables! That's the final straw! I reject your voodoo cables! I reject things that I can't afford! (Natural human reaction.)

3. You need developed ears and experience comparing lots of gear before things at the level of cables become clearly audible to you. Again, the crowd here is mostly younger and so often struggle to tell the difference between amps, let alone cables.

4. The level of expectation for what kind of difference a cable can make is all wrong. They seem to be expecting some earth-shattering complete re-imagining of the sonics, but that's not what you get. They will not accept that the difference is much less than that, and likely falls outside the level at which they are currently capable of perceiving.

5. Inexperienced people pick the over-tweaked hyper-bright TV screen on the shop floor ("oooh, look at that!), the "louder" and bass-heavy pumping speaker in the wall of speakers at the Best Buy. That doesn't mean they are better devices or perform better at all, but at the level of their perception abilities, only differences that strong and glaring are perceived, and usually deemed "superior" even though they are not. When an audio cable does not "pop" like the loudest, most obnoxious speaker in the shop, they can't hear it and so think it's bunk.

6. Young people (in general) do not just sit and listen to music (especially nowadays), doing nothing else. They're busy multi-tasking, and music is in the background of whatever else they are involved in. Of course, under these circumstances, how are they ever going to hear mere cable differences?

7. They're in college and going through that de-programming process where everything they learned in school so far turns out to be mostly over-simplified pap. They are in that stage where they want to reject everything with a skeptic's eye. They're so disillusioned, they need *proof* of everything. They also think they know it all, and anything someone over 30 says is true must be a lie. I can say this because I went through it too, and so did everyone else.

I could go on, but I'll stop there.

That post ^ has to be illustrative of the reasons why there is such animosity when dicussing cables.

I am a cable beleiver (to a point and from what I have heard) but seriously, thats utter **** what you've just waffled mate.

I thought it was pretty coherent myself. When it comes to cables, I'm boring. Boring because I sit happily in-between the two camps. I believe I've heard cables make a noticeable difference but, at the same time, I'm willing to believe that's just placebo. If someone doesn't believe cables make a difference, they should at least try them first hand before stating it as fact.

coherent?

if you don't believe in cables it is because you are young and poor and you can't hear what cables bring to the table, and if you cant hear what cables bring to the table then your young and poor and therefore dont believe in cables.

Yeah, really coherent argument that.

The forum is actually 'Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories'

The non-believers may be here for one of the other topics in this forum. Or they may just like to start trouble.

I don't really have strong feelings either way about cables; I mostly visit for the speaker discussions/advice. But people (including me) love drama, so we all click on these threads that we know are going to go up like a hand grenade. It's the same reason people watch reality TV.

Anyways I got nothin but love for all of you on both sides of the fence.

We could spend all day avoiding the facts, but sometimes a dose of truth is needed to clear the air. Let's look at the typical "hater" and evaluate why they might feel like they do, based on who they are. Cable "haters" are allowed free reign to call "believers" all kinds of names and question their sanity, call them shills, etc. etc. But the actual facts about many (not all) of the demographic that hate cables are off limits?

Nothing I said should be offensive (though I know it will be read that way). I haven't called anyone a name. All I've done is collect a list of factual observations about the "typical" "hater" (not all of them, just most).

What, specifically, is offensive or untrue?

--I wasn't rich in college and couldn't afford lots of great stuff either, that's a fact.

--When I was 18, I had A LOT less experience listening to different gear, that is a fact.

--When I was 18, I would have been hard-pressed to hear the difference between cables, especially on the gear I had which was hardly what it is today. Facts.

--When I was 18, I (and everyone else I knew) thought I knew it all and was a skeptic of everything, too. But I passed out of this phase. Fact.

--Inexperienced ears pick the louder or sharper or more aggressive piece of audio and label it "better" because it is finally at a level they can recognize as "different" from the others. Fact. Does that make it "better"? No, definitely not. But inexperienced ears can't discern that at first. Do cables operate at that kind of level of difference so as to be easily spotted by anyone? No. Fact.

--I am a better listener today than I was yesterday, and will be better still tomorrow. Fact. So will all the cable "haters".

--I know less experienced people don't like being told they aren't as good at something as experienced people, but that's their problem. I've never ridden a skateboard, so it's my problem if I get offended when Tony Hawk tells me he can do tricks I can't. He's right. That's life.

Oof - all us poor, uneducated, ADD-ridden youngin's that don't have the patience, experience or money(?!!?) to appreciate the subtleties of being an audiophile just took a hit to our image. 'Your' is possessive - it's your grammar in question. 'You're' is probably the word you were looking for.

(No hard feelings Dazzer - I knew that log was gonna get thrown on the fire, and I just couldn't resist doing it myself)

I don't hate and fear snakes. I kill them for oil. Snake oil is in high demand.

I do wish I have funding for some high quality cables. However, there are some made of snake oil, too.

Hey- spell check is free...

Pedantry is the last preserve of those anal retentive types who care just that little too much about how they are perceived.

You do not need to teach me about grammar. What you may have something to teach me about perhaps, is the mind set that deems it a worthwhile cause proof reading a post on a forum.

If I told you my I.Q. you would feel a little foolish I feel.