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vinyl rip vs cd - Page 22

post #316 of 325
rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

A turntable is MUCH more likely to monkey with soundstage due to crosstalk than an A2D converter that has no crosstalk at all and specs that FAR exceed vinyl specs. If you aren't able to rip an LP to CD and come out with an identical sounding copy, you are doing something wrong somewhere. The most likely suspects would be the level of the capture causing clipping or a A2D converter that isn't audibly transparent (i.e.: junk)

...not again.

rolleyes.gif
post #317 of 325

I did a capture of Lincoln Mayorga and Distinguished Colleagues 2 (Sheffield Lab D2D) and in direct A/B switched line level matched comparison, the digital copy was indistinguishable from the original LP. If you are interested in learning about how to make perfect LP rips, I'd be happy to fill you in.

post #318 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

I did a capture of Lincoln Mayorga and Distinguished Colleagues 2 (Sheffield Lab D2D) and in direct A/B switched line level matched comparison, the digital copy was indistinguishable from the original LP. If you are interested in learning about how to make perfect LP rips, I'd be happy to fill you in.

You just can't help yourself. There's a cure, or at least a way to handle the symptoms, you know. Meds have come a long way.

smily_headphones1.gif
post #319 of 325

Some folks actually are interested in sharing techniques on how to do vinyl rips you know. I have no idea why you are posting on this thread if you aren't interested.

post #320 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Some folks actually are interested in sharing techniques on how to do vinyl rips you know. I have no idea why you are posting on this thread if you aren't interested.

I shared my experience and spoke with another individual who's in a similar position. I have no desire to debate anything. I hope that's clear.

Edit: I truly mean no offence, your previous posts - yes, I sometimes read them for fun - show zero indication that you're familiar with good sound. As such, please stop.
Edited by Shaffer - 2/11/15 at 12:08pm
post #321 of 325

It's best to use a really good capture device. The one I use has RCA in, but here is a good one with XLR. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QuadCapture?adpos=1o2&creative=55225946401&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CIn0u8X42sMCFRNafgodB0UAdg

 

The most important thing to getting a really good capture off an LP record is to make sure your level is set properly. It's a good idea to have an adjustable preamp between your turntable and the capture device so you can adjust the line level to avoid clipping, or to be so low in level that the noise floor is raised. (Remember, you always need a turntable pre too to apply the RIAA curve.) Capture to your computer using a program like BIAS Peak.

 

Once you have captured the track, there are three kinds of noise reduction you can use. Some are very good, and others are very bad.

 

Broad Band Noise Reduction: This is the bad one. This basically applies a muffling filter over the top end. You want to avoid this one.

 

Dynamic Pattern Based Noise Reduction: Used with discretion, this can be helpful to reduce surface noise. The filter analyzes a silent section between tracks and determines the frequencies where the surface noise and rumble resides. Then you can adjust it to roll in based on the dynamics of the music- higher in silent passages, out completely once the music is loud enough to mask the surface noise. It can take a little trial and error and experience to know how to use this. A good example of this sort of filter is SoundSoap 4.

 

Impulse Noise Reduction: This is the most useful form of NR for LPs. It senses sharp transient clicks and pops, and applies a filter only to the fraction of a second where the noise occurs. It analyzes the sound before and after the click to create pink noise that bridges the gap perfectly. Since the noise reduction is only applied to the tiny sliver of time where pops and clicks occur, and the filtration is completely disengaged the rest of the time, it can only help the sound quality, it can't hurt it.

 

Once you have finished applying NR, normalize your track up to about 90% and listen to it. You might want to apply some judicious equalization. Often LPs had high and low end rolloffs to accommodate tracking and record wear problems. Sometimes a little sub bass and upper frequency boost can help freshen up an LP transfer.

post #322 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

It's best to use a really good capture device. The one I use has RCA in, but here is a good one with XLR. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QuadCapture?adpos=1o2&creative=55225946401&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CIn0u8X42sMCFRNafgodB0UAdg

The most important thing to getting a really good capture off an LP record is to make sure your level is set properly. It's a good idea to have an adjustable preamp between your turntable and the capture device so you can adjust the line level to avoid clipping, or to be so low in level that the noise floor is raised. (Remember, you always need a turntable pre too to apply the RIAA curve.) Capture to your computer using a program like BIAS Peak.

Once you have captured the track, there are three kinds of noise reduction you can use. Some are very good, and others are very bad.

Broad Band Noise Reduction: This is the bad one. This basically applies a muffling filter over the top end. You want to avoid this one.

Dynamic Pattern Based Noise Reduction: Used with discretion, this can be helpful to reduce surface noise. The filter analyzes a silent section between tracks and determines the frequencies where the surface noise and rumble resides. Then you can adjust it to roll in based on the dynamics of the music- higher in silent passages, out completely once the music is loud enough to mask the surface noise. It can take a little trial and error and experience to know how to use this. A good example of this sort of filter is SoundSoap 4.

Impulse Noise Reduction: This is the most useful form of NR for LPs. It senses sharp transient clicks and pops, and applies a filter only to the fraction of a second where the noise occurs. It analyzes the sound before and after the click to create pink noise that bridges the gap perfectly. Since the noise reduction is only applied to the tiny sliver of time where pops and clicks occur, and the filtration is completely disengaged the rest of the time, it can only help the sound quality, it can't hurt it.

Once you have finished applying NR, normalize your track up to about 90% and listen to it. You might want to apply some judicious equalization. Often LPs had high and low end rolloffs to accommodate tracking and record wear problems. Sometimes a little sub bass and upper frequency boost can help freshen up an LP transfer.

You're insulting my intelligence. Who knows, maybe someone will find this useful. Noise reduction, setting levels, RIAA EQ - lol. Mickey Mouse Club.

Edit: Thanks, I guess.
Edited by Shaffer - 2/11/15 at 3:18pm
post #323 of 325

I was talking past you to the people who actually have an interest in doing vinyl rips! Feel free to depart.

post #324 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaffer View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

It's best to use a really good capture device. The one I use has RCA in, but here is a good one with XLR. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QuadCapture?adpos=1o2&creative=55225946401&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CIn0u8X42sMCFRNafgodB0UAdg

The most important thing to getting a really good capture off an LP record is to make sure your level is set properly. It's a good idea to have an adjustable preamp between your turntable and the capture device so you can adjust the line level to avoid clipping, or to be so low in level that the noise floor is raised. (Remember, you always need a turntable pre too to apply the RIAA curve.) Capture to your computer using a program like BIAS Peak.

Once you have captured the track, there are three kinds of noise reduction you can use. Some are very good, and others are very bad.

Broad Band Noise Reduction: This is the bad one. This basically applies a muffling filter over the top end. You want to avoid this one.

Dynamic Pattern Based Noise Reduction: Used with discretion, this can be helpful to reduce surface noise. The filter analyzes a silent section between tracks and determines the frequencies where the surface noise and rumble resides. Then you can adjust it to roll in based on the dynamics of the music- higher in silent passages, out completely once the music is loud enough to mask the surface noise. It can take a little trial and error and experience to know how to use this. A good example of this sort of filter is SoundSoap 4.

Impulse Noise Reduction: This is the most useful form of NR for LPs. It senses sharp transient clicks and pops, and applies a filter only to the fraction of a second where the noise occurs. It analyzes the sound before and after the click to create pink noise that bridges the gap perfectly. Since the noise reduction is only applied to the tiny sliver of time where pops and clicks occur, and the filtration is completely disengaged the rest of the time, it can only help the sound quality, it can't hurt it.

Once you have finished applying NR, normalize your track up to about 90% and listen to it. You might want to apply some judicious equalization. Often LPs had high and low end rolloffs to accommodate tracking and record wear problems. Sometimes a little sub bass and upper frequency boost can help freshen up an LP transfer.

You're insulting my intelligence. Who knows, maybe someone will find this useful. Noise reduction, setting levels, RIAA EQ - lol. Mickey Mouse Club.

Edit: Thanks, I guess.


I am also not at all interested in noise reduction and cutting out clicks and pops or whatsoever. To me it is not the question what the frequency range of a LP is and what format would be required to capture "just" that range, or whether or how much there is crosstalk. I just wanna preserve my LPs and what is on it exactly as they are, in the best possible quality. That's all.

After this was achieved, then anybody who likes can battle clicks and pops or whatever. But that's nothing I want (then I really better look for a master-copy in high res).

Compared to such post-ripping processing it is much more important to do the basic settings correct, and this is by far not done with "setting the level properly".

It is mainly the ultra precise cartridge adjustment (...actually a major source of mistake...), matching the RIAA preamp settings to the cartridge (...in my experience there is more "good" compromise around than perfect or at least close to perfect matches...), cabling and last but not least the adequate D/A conversion (...my preference here still is DSD...).
Any mistake done in the analogue process you can never make good for in the digital domain. To me, in the analogue process and in D/A conversion is the key to quality not in using digital filter gimmicks; how "intelligent" they might be.


Edited by musikaladin - 2/12/15 at 11:30pm
post #325 of 325

Whenever you do noise reduction on a track, always archive your raw transfer. Noise reduction technology has jumped by leaps and bounds in the past decade. Who knows what they may be able to do in a few years. I remember when I was first starting out, CEDAR was the state of the art in digital noise reduction. A CEDAR workstation cost tens of thousands of dollars. Now, the exact same thing that CEDAR did is built into consumer audio editing software. In fact, some of the declickers are even better than CEDAR.

 

And you are absolutely right, if your turntable isn't set up properly, you aren't going to get the best transfers. But I figured most people have already dealt with that issue.

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