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vinyl rip vs cd - Page 16

post #226 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

 

Does that chart look like the response of a bare speaker? It looks to me like they swiped a headphone's response chart off the web.

I do not think many users of FRS8 would agree with the above statement. It would have long ago been phased out of the production if it was not good as described.

 

I was worse than Incredulous Thomas in the beginning too.

 

In Voigt Pipe, it has useable output down to 50 Hz. Add a subwoofer and a supertweeter from Taket  http://www.taket.jp/batpure/batpure.html, which is small enough to be positioned in front of the FRS8 as in car audio speakers, use gentle 6 dB/octave x/overs - and you have the whole thing, up to 100 kHz.

It would still be a speaker for relatively small rooms, as output of 80 mm diaphragm only goes so far and is limited in loudness/distortion in its lower end of the response. If integration with the subwoofer is done right, FRS8 based system as described above can deliver breathtaking realism at an acceptable price.

 

As I do not have large room available, I use Stax Lambda Pro / SRM 1 MK2 / ED-1 Diffuse Field Equalizer. It has response from around 4 Hz to above 40 kHz.


Edited by analogsurviver - 11/12/13 at 1:59pm
post #227 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

 

Does that chart look like the response of a bare speaker? It looks to me like they swiped a headphone's response chart off the web.

 

I don't know any headphones with a FR curve anywhere near as flat as that !

 

 

You really are a terrible old cynic :wink:

post #228 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

 

I'm curious why super audible frequencies in recordings are so important to you when your equipment can't even reproduce the full range of audible ones?

Despite being limited, FRS8 is more capable of resolving of recording quality/bandwidth issues as most on paper more extended speakers. It is coherent,

it does cover the most important part of the spectrum, say from 100 Hz to 10 kHz, better than most.

 

Please see my other post how to make a full range system around FRS8.

post #229 of 334

Specs on a bare speaker don't mean much. What enclosure are those measurements made with? A three inch speaker is a three inch speaker. It may sound really good for a three inch speaker, but it isn't going to produce any sort of flat response down to 50 Hz in any enclosure in a real living room. And that chart says it's producing 80dB SPL. Holy cow!

 

Specs and charts are very useful for amps and CD players. The signal goes in and the signal goes out and you can measure at both ends and compare. But with speakers, frequency response charts like this are meaningless because the response is going to depend on the room you put it in. Add to that the wild card that we don't even know what kind of enclosure was used for these specs and it isn't even worth talking about.

 

Frequency response is the single most important aspect of sound reproduction. I think audiophiles should expend a little time and energy into understanding what kinds of sounds all those numbers represent. Then they would know that 25kHz isn't audible at all in music and a 3 inch speaker isn't going to make balanced sound from 50Hz to 20kHz in any enclosure, in any living room, on any planet in the universe.

post #230 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

In Voigt Pipe, it has useable output down to 50 Hz. Add a subwoofer and a supertweeter from Taket  http://www.taket.jp/batpure/batpure.html, which is small enough to be positioned in front of the FRS8 as in car audio speakers, use gentle 6 dB/octave x/overs - and you have the whole thing, up to 100 kHz.

 

I hate to sound like a broken record, but getting great sound isn't about pushing the outside edges of the frequency spectrum out as far as you can. It's about having balanced sound throughout the entire audible range, from 20Hz to 20kHz. If you combined a sub, three inch mains and a super tweeter, you would have a response curve that looked like the grand canyon... a great big trough where the midrange should be.

post #231 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

 

I hate to sound like a broken record, but getting great sound isn't about pushing the outside edges of the frequency spectrum out as far as you can. It's about having balanced sound throughout the entire audible range, from 20Hz to 20kHz. If you combined a sub, three inch mains and a super tweeter, you would have a response curve that looked like the grand canyon... a great big trough where the midrange should be.

Not if done right.

post #232 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

Despite being limited, FRS8 is more capable of resolving of recording quality/bandwidth issues as most on paper more extended speakers. It is coherent,

it does cover the most important part of the spectrum, say from 100 Hz to 10 kHz, better than most.

 

What does "resolving quality/bandwidth issues" mean? I'm afraid I don't understand what that means.

post #233 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

Not if done right.

 

In order to produce a flat response from 100Hz down to 20Hz, a subwoofer is going to need considerable power. And super tweeters produce a lot of volume. Dinky mains the size of small bookshelf speakers just aren't going to keep up. You'd have to pull the sub back so far, it wouldn't be working efficiently, and even then the mains would struggle to keep up without overdriving. Creating any kind of coherent soundstage with that setup would be next to impossible. You'd have to cram all the speakers together and sit two feet away from them. You could get a sorta good sounding band limited response with that setup, but nothing even approaching flat from 20 to 20.

 

I've actually put together a speaker system in a real world living room, and I've worked and struggled to flatten the response. What you're talking about just isn't possible in the real world. The specs on paper you are looking at are heavily fudged.

post #234 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

 

What does "resolving quality/bandwidth issues" mean? I'm afraid I don't understand what that means.

FRS8, with or without subwoofers/supertweeters ( if these are properly implemented ), can clearly diferentiate if the signal is redbook CD or DSD128 - and all meaningfully different sounding resolutions of PCM in between. No ifs and buts. Stage width and particularly depth go a notch higher or lower with higher or lower resolution. 

 

You can go to http://www.2l.no/hires/ and download samples of the same recording which originates from DXD in various resolutions of digital, both DSD and PCM. That tiny speaker will tell you instantly what is being played, provided you do not overtax its output capabilities. It is ideally suited for near field monitors, but in a suitable enclosure can fill a smaller room. 

 

If you want to get blasted by FRS8s ( LOTS of them ), you can try various arrays , like here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/44551-visaton-frs8-line-array-w170s.html . Floor to ceiling versions are reportedly killer good - but I have yet to hear one.


Edited by analogsurviver - 11/12/13 at 3:12pm
post #235 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

FRS8, with or without subwoofers/supertweeters ( if these are properly implemented ), can clearly diferentiate if the signal is redbook CD or DSD128 - and all meaningfully different sounding resolutions of PCM in between. No ifs and buts. Stage width and particularly depth go a notch higher or lower with higher or lower resolution.

 

What precisely is the difference in sound that you can hear between redbook and DSD? It isn't dynamic range, because a three inch speaker is going to be in shreds long before it reaches the edge of redbook. It isn't extended frequency response, because this speaker can't even do 20 to 20. What exactly are you hearing?

 

(By the way, soundstage is a function of how the speaker interacts with your room acoustics. The bitrate of the audio has absolutely nothing to do with it.)

post #236 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

 

What precisely is the difference in sound that you can hear between redbook and DSD? It isn't dynamic range, because a three inch speaker is going to be in shreds long before it reaches the edge of redbook. It isn't extended frequency response, because this speaker can't even do 20 to 20. What exactly are you hearing?

 

(By the way, soundstage is a function of how the speaker interacts with your room acoustics. The bitrate of the audio has absolutely nothing to do with it.)

The noise-shaping of DSD getting modulated back down into the audible range perhaps?

post #237 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post
 

The noise-shaping of DSD getting modulated back down into the audible range perhaps?

 

I'd be tempted to download some of those high res tracks , but 338MB for a 10 minute FLAC track.. holy *&()^%$%**** % @!! 


Edited by nick_charles - 11/12/13 at 3:53pm
post #238 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post
 

 

I'd be tempted to download some of those high res tracks , but 338MB for a 10 minute FLAC track.. holy *&()^%$%**** % @!! 

You can get a 5min DSD64 here that is smaller by ~130MB

 

http://edu.bluecoastrecords.com/

 

edit: DSD doesn't come in FLAC, you may have confused it with 24/32bit PCM material


Edited by brunk - 11/12/13 at 3:59pm
post #239 of 334

What happened here? It got quiet all of a sudden.

post #240 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

What happened here? It got quiet all of a sudden.

pff quiet im still shocked this thread is still alive... its like a camp fest at this point
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