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EC Zana Deux tube rolling pls share - Page 37

post #541 of 625

Hi Blackmore!

 

I read the thread last night, quite the sandwich to digest! :)

It wasn't a leisurely read, I took a lot of notes and came to a nice list of interesting tubes with specific details to look for in order to get the right ones.

Really interesting thread with good info on the sound of the tubes and mostly a general consensus, not all over the place different opinions on them.

 

Some of these tubes are quite pricey though. I'll send an email to the shop in Vietnam first. I wonder, has anybody been able to purchase tubes from that dealer?

 

Oh, by the way Blackmore, I see you sold your Zana and went for the HP4 after that, which you don't have anymore as well if I remember correctly. May I ask how the Zana and HP4 compare?

 

I ordered a customized Zana from Craig, he said the mod I wanted was possible. I'm awaiting the invoice to pay the advance.

 

By the way, if anyone has any tubes they want to sell, feel free to contact me.


Edited by AppleheadMay - 1/6/12 at 7:09am
post #542 of 625
Thread Starter 

 

That's a good start, reading first, learning a bit and then buying, however we all have moments of not to be patient enough, but that's later stage, at least I hope you will be like that, otherwise your wallet will hate you for life…

 

There are some differences, which one may like more or less, but my decision was based on fact of using GS1000 with those amps and Yoshino won for me and here is why:

 

1 EAR's delicacy

2. EAR's mids

3. EAR's speed - it's kind of extra you get with it.

 

Zana is fast to, but not as EAR. Zana is very extended and with some driver tubes such as COSSOR ( think Brimar made ) I owned, it was endless, amazing tube, crystal clear and very detailed, but not unnatural. The mids, while are not bad, they were more kind of created by rolling of driver tube, so, I think the strongest basics of ZD are: bass and extended all the way up and down, where EAR's basics are very strong mids and delicacy. Bass wasn't that tight and deep, but it never  bothered me, so, both of these amps are simply great, where one was better match for Grado GS1000 and another for Sennheiser HD650, to name a few. One last thing, which I found very important at the time I was looking for my amp, it's the ability of have plenty space with volume adjustment. If you take ZD then you are pretty fast done around say 9.30-10.00, maybe even less, but Yoshino was / is way better in that regard, cos you can run it with pretty high level and EAR just stay as cool as you can get, perfect, imo.

There are some options that EAR have and ZD not and these are fully balanced IN/OUT and 4x headphones outputs: 2x low and 2x high imp.

 

My ZD was one of the first run, number 28, and I believe one of the first 220V made, bought from a very nice gentleman from Czech Republic and sold later to a very nice gentleman from UK:-)))

 

In any way, I do believe you will love it, cos such quality and great personality are not much present, even these days,  with so many gear around as it today I mean, only few are for life, so, great choice mate.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleheadMay View Post

Hi Blackmore!

 

I read the thread last night, quite the sandwich to digest! :)

It wasn't a leisurely read, I took a lot of notes and came to a nice list of interesting tubes with specific details to look for in order to get the right ones.

Really interesting thread with good info on the sound of the tubes and mostly a general consensus, not all over the place different opinions on them.

 

Some of these tubes are quite pricey though. I'll send an email to the shop in Vietnam first. I wonder, has anybody been able to purchase tubes from that dealer?

 

Oh, by the way Blackmore, I see you sold your Zana and went for the HP4 after that, which you don't have anymore as well if I remember correctly. May I ask how the Zana and HP4 compare?

 

I ordered a customized Zana from Craig, he said the mod I wanted was possible. I'm awaiting the invoice to pay the advance.

 

By the way, if anyone has any tubes they want to sell, feel free to contact me.



 

post #543 of 625

I think I made the right choice with the Zana then as I wanted something different.

I already have a Yammy and what you describe about the HP4 is what I think about the Yammy, only more of it or more pronounced. The HP4 will surely be better than the HA-02 but it's price has gone up unreasonably lately.

Anyway, I think I will love the difference that the Zana offers which is why I chose it, SET vs OTL sound.

 

As for tubes, I already got a Brimar for a really nice price here on HF. Black base with orange/yellow/greenish print, hard to describe.

The ones that I'm really after are the Valvo's. I'd love a pair of them since these seem less expensive anyway. The only place I found them is at that Vietnam store. I sent an email but no response yet.

So if anyone has a couple of Valvo's gathering dust ...  *waves*


Edited by AppleheadMay - 1/6/12 at 10:46am
post #544 of 625

For those interested, the Vietnam shop is active. I got a reply and ordered some tubes from him.

The Standard Radio and metal base Sylvania's are sold out though.

I ordered Valvo, Philips ECC35 and Tung-Sol black glass.

 

 

EDIT: People can safely order from Tung.

I just received my tubes from him packed as I've never seen anything packed before, had good service and nice email contact.

 

EDIT: just heard from him again, he has some new 6SL7 tubes, pretty rare ones as usual. the list is below.

 

 

2 tubes: Standard Radio 33S29B/5691 (not matched pair but matched plate)
2 tubes: Brimar 6SL7GT black base with while label on base (matched pair but only one box)
3 tubes: RCA JAN CRC 5691 red base short glass and some more 5691 tubes in mix branch but made by RCA
 

 


Edited by AppleheadMay - 1/21/12 at 1:17pm
post #545 of 625

anyone found the perfect tube for lcd-2's?
 

post #546 of 625

Hello everyone, I'm new to this thread. I've ordered a Zana Deux SE and it will be arriving soon. I like tube rolling, but I want to buy the best possible tubes money can buy for my ZDSE and be settled on them. Craig told me that the driver 6SL7 tube has the greatest effect on sound. Of course, I'm willing to roll 6C33C-B and 6D22S tubes too.

 

Here are my questions:

 

1. What are the stock 6SL7, 6C33C-B, and 6D22S tubes that come with the ZDSE?

 

2. What is the BEST 6SL7 tube currently available, cost-no-object?

The most expensive ones I've found on the Internet are these platinum low noise Mullard ECC35 from Tubeworld.com, selling $300 apiece.

Could you say that these are easily the overall best tubes I can get, or are there even better options you know of?

If these Mullard ECC35 are indeed the best, which one should I buy: short brown/tall brown/short black/tall black base?

 

3. What is the BEST 6C33C-B tube currently available, cost-no-object?

 

4. What is the BEST 6D22S tube currently available, cost-no-object?

 

Any input would be appreciated.

post #547 of 625
Thread Starter 

Congrats with you new amp, great choice.

 

Regarding tubes. I must say, all that rolling thing is very personal and you can be much happier with cheaper NOS Russian, or even Chinese made, than say NOS ECC35 Mullard.

 

If you decided to buy ECC35 Mullard, go for Short/Normal Glass with Brown base. The one that comes with Tall Glass is less "high end" and will be more forgiving. I like Brown based at most, in both variants. Sometimes, you can see tubes named ADZAM, but thats Mullard made one for MAZDA ( read backwards ), they are the same, at least thats my impressions. Another option is Tung Sol 6SU7GTY, which is 100% identical to 6SL7, good tube with differ coloration.

 

 

Regarding 6C33C-B. There are not much to roll, these are Russian tubes that were made for military purpose http://www.tubetvr.com/favtube.html  and there are 2, maybe 3, manufacturers in Russia who produced this one and the most I can read about it is the one that comes with C logo, made by Svetlana before 70's, is the best,  but you can find more on net, if you search http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/20/206245.html Also, I believe, if you search this thread, you sure find that info to.

 

Dont know much about 6D22S, never rolled one myself, but ones again, up here, ih this thread, there is lots of info, you have to be patient and read a lot.

 

You can send an e-mail to Graig and ask all about tubes that comes with Zana, he will replay for sure, great guy.

 

Here is the link where you can see a lot of Russian made tubes and their US / EU equivalents http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Russian/Russische_Roehren.htm

 

 

Good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post

Hello everyone, I'm new to this thread. I've ordered a Zana Deux SE and it will be arriving soon. I like tube rolling, but I want to buy the best possible tubes money can buy for my ZDSE and be settled on them. Craig told me that the driver 6SL7 tube has the greatest effect on sound. Of course, I'm willing to roll 6C33C-B and 6D22S tubes too.

 

Here are my questions:

 

1. What are the stock 6SL7, 6C33C-B, and 6D22S tubes that come with the ZDSE?

 

2. What is the BEST 6SL7 tube currently available, cost-no-object?

The most expensive ones I've found on the Internet are these platinum low noise Mullard ECC35 from Tubeworld.com, selling $300 apiece.

Could you say that these are easily the overall best tubes I can get, or are there even better options you know of?

If these Mullard ECC35 are indeed the best, which one should I buy: short brown/tall brown/short black/tall black base?

 

3. What is the BEST 6C33C-B tube currently available, cost-no-object?

 

4. What is the BEST 6D22S tube currently available, cost-no-object?

 

Any input would be appreciated.


Edited by Blackmore - 12/15/12 at 10:48pm
post #548 of 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

Congrats with you new amp, great choice.

 

Regarding tubes. I must say, all that rolling thing is very personal and you can be much happier with cheaper NOS Russian, or even Chinese made, than say NOS ECC35 Mullard.

 

If you decided to buy ECC35 Mullard, go for Short/Normal Glass with Brown base. The one that comes with Tall Glass is less "high end" and will be more forgiving. I like Brown based at most, in both variants. Sometimes, you can see tubes named ADZAM, but thats Mullard made one for MAZDA ( read backwards ), they are the same, at least thats my impressions. Another option is Tung Sol 6SU7GTY, which is 100% identical to 6SL7, good tube with differ coloration.

 

 

Regarding 6C33C-B. There are not much to roll, these are Russian tubes that were made for military purpose http://www.tubetvr.com/favtube.html  and there are 2, maybe 3, manufacturers in Russia who produced this one and the most I can read about it is the one that comes with C logo, made by Svetlana before 70's, is the best,  but you can find more on net, if you search http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/20/206245.html Also, I believe, if you search this thread, you sure find that info to.

 

Dont know much about 6D22S, never rolled one myself, but ones again, up here, ih this thread, there is lots of info, you have to be patient and read a lot.

 

You can send an e-mail to Graig and ask all about tubes that comes with Zana, he will replay for sure, great guy.

 

Here is the link where you can see a lot of Russian made tubes and their US / EU equivalents http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Russian/Russische_Roehren.htm

 

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you for the valuable info!

 

So, I should go with the brown base tubes. However, I'm not sure about short glass/tall glass. In the link below, the tubes are classified as short/tall "base", not "glass". Do they mean the same thing, or are they different? If they are different, are the tubes listed in the link below short or tall glass?

 

https://www.tubeworld.com/ecc35.htm

 

Also, of all the tubes listed in this page, which one do you think is the best, then?

post #549 of 625
Thread Starter 

Short base comes with taller glass, these are first 4, you can see it pretty clear, however I can understand your confusion, so, the one that shows in the middle, with tall brown base, pic no.5, 6 and 7, thats the one I was talking about. They also come with tall black base, also worth to own, these are 3 last from the list. If you can, buy brown and black based one all together.   If not, go for brown based then, cos, I think you will be getting the most of it from the whole line. The taller glass tubes are good to, at least, I liked them all, each for their own reason, they are nice, warmish and forgiving sounding tubes, the taller glass I mean.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post

 

Thank you for the valuable info!

 

So, I should go with the brown base tubes. However, I'm not sure about short glass/tall glass. In the link below, the tubes are classified as short/tall "base", not "glass". Do they mean the same thing, or are they different? If they are different, are the tubes listed in the link below short or tall glass?

 

https://www.tubeworld.com/ecc35.htm

 

Also, of all the tubes listed in this page, which one do you think is the best, then?


Edited by Blackmore - 12/16/12 at 9:16pm
post #550 of 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

Short base comes with taller glass, these are first 4, you can see it pretty clear, however I can understand your confusion, so, the one that shows in the middle, with tall brown base, pic no.5, 6 and 7, thats the one I was talking about. They also come with tall black base, also worth to own, these are 3 last from the list. If you can, buy brown and black based one all together.   If not, go for brown based then, cos, I think you will be getting the most of it from the whole line. The taller glass tubes are good to, at least, I liked them all, each for their own reason, they are nice, warmish and forgiving sounding tubes, the taller glass I mean.

 

Now I get it, thank you so much! I should buy the tall base, because that means short glass.

 

I'm going to buy just one tube, and that will be the tall brown base (no. 5~7). The no.5 tube seems most attractive, as it is the oldest tube (and thus probably better). No.6 looks nice too, but its pins seem too retracted to fit properly into the ZDSE.

 

The no.5 tube is said to be (4.25ma/5.0ma), while no.6 is (3.50ma/3.75ma).

Do you know what those numbers mean?

 

Also, when you used these ECC35 tubes, were they noisy? In other words, was there an audible noise or hum in the background? I understand noise can sometimes be an issue for tube amps, especially if one uses a very old tube like these ones. The no.5 is labelled as low noise while no.6 is platinum low noise. Do you think the low noise no.5 could be noisy, especially if I'm using a headphone with high efficiency/sensitivity?

post #551 of 625
Thread Starter 

Good choice, go for it. If you want to be sure that your tubes are not noisy, your may check Military grade ones. These particular tube, ECC35 I mean, uses other code for that, which is CV569. There is also one great option from Brimar, which Military code is CV1985, nice to have around as well, imo. Military grade tubes been passed through much difficult tests, which, in general, translates in better quality. Usually, they are not noisy and deliver great results, but all depends on your personal preferences and amps they been used in.

 

But most important, is the seller, who must be honest and open about the tests and possible flaws. The numbers you asking about are the test results that show you how strong the tubes are. To keep it simple, for example if new tube tests 6mA and 5mA and you are buying one that say 4mA and 3,5mA, you know that the tube is not testing like NEW and probably have been used, however doesn’t mean it will be BAD, no, just information for you as buyer. But to be sure that  the tubes are NEW testing you have to know the TESTER and its parameters, which can be pretty complex and don’t give you much anyway. All I am trying to say, if you buy expensive, or any, tubes, try to buy them from trusty source only. This way you are sure that tubes were tested promptly and the seller don’t hide any information from you. Also, if the tube are bad behavior, an good seller just replace it, that’s how it must be.

 

Good luck and tell us your impressions later.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by songmic View Post

 

Now I get it, thank you so much! I should buy the tall base, because that means short glass.

 

I'm going to buy just one tube, and that will be the tall brown base (no. 5~7). The no.5 tube seems most attractive, as it is the oldest tube (and thus probably better). No.6 looks nice too, but its pins seem too retracted to fit properly into the ZDSE.

 

The no.5 tube is said to be (4.25ma/5.0ma), while no.6 is (3.50ma/3.75ma).

Do you know what those numbers mean?

 

Also, when you used these ECC35 tubes, were they noisy? In other words, was there an audible noise or hum in the background? I understand noise can sometimes be an issue for tube amps, especially if one uses a very old tube like these ones. The no.5 is labelled as low noise while no.6 is platinum low noise. Do you think the low noise no.5 could be noisy, especially if I'm using a headphone with high efficiency/sensitivity?

post #552 of 625

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

Good choice, go for it. If you want to be sure that your tubes are not noisy, your may check Military grade ones. These particular tube, ECC35 I mean, uses other code for that, which is CV569. There is also one great option from Brimar, which Military code is CV1985, nice to have around as well, imo. Military grade tubes been passed through much difficult tests, which, in general, translates in better quality. Usually, they are not noisy and deliver great results, but all depends on your personal preferences and amps they been used in.

 

But most important, is the seller, who must be honest and open about the tests and possible flaws. The numbers you asking about are the test results that show you how strong the tubes are. To keep it simple, for example if new tube tests 6mA and 5mA and you are buying one that say 4mA and 3,5mA, you know that the tube is not testing like NEW and probably have been used, however doesn’t mean it will be BAD, no, just information for you as buyer. But to be sure that  the tubes are NEW testing you have to know the TESTER and its parameters, which can be pretty complex and don’t give you much anyway. All I am trying to say, if you buy expensive, or any, tubes, try to buy them from trusty source only. This way you are sure that tubes were tested promptly and the seller don’t hide any information from you. Also, if the tube are bad behavior, an good seller just replace it, that’s how it must be.

 

Good luck and tell us your impressions later.

 

Well I asked the seller, and he told me that both low noise and platinum low noise tube should have no audible noise; platinum tubes simply have better triode matching (the two numbers are closer).

 

ZDSE uses a single 6SL7 tube as driver tube. Does the ZDSE uses both triode sections of the 6SL7, or just one?

If there is a difference between the triode measurements (4.25mA/5.00mA), does that mean that there could be an imbalance in volume between the left and right channels?

post #553 of 625
Thread Starter 

Well, take first step and buy one tube, try and see from there. I dont expect any imbalance in volume. If you have specifiek tech questions about tube operations, contact Craig please, he is the one who build that amp and like I wrote, will answer all your questions.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by songmic View Post

 

Well I asked the seller, and he told me that both low noise and platinum low noise tube should have no audible noise; platinum tubes simply have better triode matching (the two numbers are closer).

 

ZDSE uses a single 6SL7 tube as driver tube. Does the ZDSE uses both triode sections of the 6SL7, or just one?

If there is a difference between the triode measurements (4.25mA/5.00mA), does that mean that there could be an imbalance in volume between the left and right channels?

post #554 of 625

The best sounding 6SL7 tube I've found for my Zana Deux is the current production Sophia Electric 6SL7. It beats my Adzam, Brimar, and reissued Tung Sol tubes with ease. Much improved treble extension, and superb bass. I've tried different rectifier tubes with no discernable difference in sound.

post #555 of 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by 333jeffery View Post

The best sounding 6SL7 tube I've found for my Zana Deux is the current production Sophia Electric 6SL7. It beats my Adzam, Brimar, and reissued Tung Sol tubes with ease. Much improved treble extension, and superb bass. I've tried different rectifier tubes with no discernable difference in sound.

 

Really? I had considered the Sophia Electric 6SL7 but I thought Mullard ECC35 NOS tubes would best everything else. Could you share a picture of your ZDSE with the Sophia 6SL7?

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