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Don't waste your money on high end digital cables - Page 2

post #16 of 53
Yes, well, stating the obvious doesn't help much. Obviously, uncompressed HD will look better than compressed, but currently there is no capacity (or some typically american bone-headed business paradigm) to broadcast even HDDVD/Bluray level HD!
post #17 of 53
To the OP, I appreciated your postings.The other day I watched a documentary on a cult in new mexico. A guy and his wife were part of this cult for years. The cult leader took the guys wife to his bed and ended up making her pregnant. Her husband, incredibly, wasn't mad, he just looked confused and kept saying it was the will of god that another man knocked her up. A miracle. The husband ends up being one of the most vocal supporters of the cult leader as time went on!

In that thread in the cables forum, we find out that a high priced cable companies cables are made from garden hose hot glue and thin wire and lies, and marked up to a ridiculous price. Incredibly, its those same people who got ripped off that are the most vocal supporters. Same mindset, same thought processes. The difference is the degree of delusional thinking.

Maybe some people are just predisposed to that kind of thinking. Anyway, I don't think you'll get the kind of response you want in this forum, most likely people will take offense rather than thank you for helping them out.
post #18 of 53
Thread Starter 
Just the fact that even the most expensive audio and video equipment uses tiny paper-thin traces in its circuits should be enough to convince anyone that ones belief in the superiority of big expensive interconnects is nothing more than a faith based belief.

Double blind testing is my only religion when it comes to cables. If anything, a true audiophile should strive to eliminate all physical non-soldered contacts in his or her signal path. Solder outputs to inputs and use the shortest cables possible. Eliminate connectors all together.

edit - also keep in mind that when you pay hundreds of dollars for those hand-made interconnects, you are not paying for the quality of the cable and the connectors, you are paying for the time it took a person to assemble them for you.

Moral of the story? If you need flashy looking cables, make them yourself!
post #19 of 53
wrong forum
post #20 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
wrong forum
Ok, so that explains it! I was wondering why this thread hasn't yet turned into the usual circus act! It has now been moved from the Member's Lounge to the Cables forum. May the fun begin!
post #21 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus View Post
May the fun begin!
So it will

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus View Post
From everything that I've read on the topic, the support seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of the OP's position: if makes no sense to waste your money on high end digital cables. Mind you, as many here know, I'm not by any means a cable skeptic in general terms, but unless and until I'm convinced with some solid scientific logic/proof as to how different digital cable could even possibly make a difference, I'll go the budget route. That's not my position at all with respect to other cables.
But how are cables any different from the "cd cutter" that cuts the edges of a cd? isnt a cd digital?
post #22 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleworld View Post
edit - also keep in mind that when you pay hundreds of dollars for those hand-made interconnects, you are not paying for the quality of the cable and the connectors, you are paying for the time it took a person to assemble them for you.

Another reason is you are paying for the R&D and prototypes of the finished product.

The large companies will sometimes offer "spiffs" (bonuses) to the salespeople if they reach a sales goal, thus the pushing of certain product lines.

I would not use some cheap charlie brand of wire. I wouldn't call Belden cheap. They offer a consistent product with a level of QC that you depend on for professional use. Companies like Belden, Mogami, Canare   used in the industry are used because they are dependable.

You are fortunate to be able to see the 1080i uncompressed, very few of us are able to see that format.


Edited by balrog - 5/14/14 at 3:09pm
post #23 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus View Post
From everything that I've read on the topic, the support seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of the OP's position: if makes no sense to waste your money on high end digital cables. Mind you, as many here know, I'm not by any means a cable skeptic in general terms, but unless and until I'm convinced with some solid scientific logic/proof as to how different digital cable could even possibly make a difference, I'll go the budget route. That's not my position at all with respect to other cables.
Digital audio transmission, SPDIF, and Jitter | Peufeu's Electronic Stuff
post #24 of 53
According to that the circuitry before and after the cable sucks. So with any cable there will probably be an impedance mismatch that he says will change the sonics. Doesn't sound like a case of Expensive cables are better, more like a find any cable that perhaps matches or mismatches your spdif the best. Which if you ask me i cant hear the difference between a cheap optical and a "nice" Acoustic Research digital coax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchaforce View Post
So it will



But how are cables any different from the "cd cutter" that cuts the edges of a cd? isnt a cd digital?
One of the issues with digital cables is shielding because interference can muck up even digital signals in some way. Also distance anything ran for a long distance is bound to degrade sometime.

I remember seeing an article or post around here about digital coaxial cables and there biggest problems were the terminations. Say a cable rated at around 72 Ohms but an RCA rated at 15 Ohms. Also I cannot remember what companies actually tested very well in terms of matching their components.
post #25 of 53
After all it is all just electrons from the stylist of the TT or laser light of the CD to the headphone driver. What could possibly happen between them to change what an election does and how it operates on the driver?
post #26 of 53
I am not a believer in high cost cables. I think you should be able to do a good sounding cable for a reasonable sum = inexpensively. I do not believe there is any correlation to what I perceive as the best sounding and price. I am not a believer in the intrinsic superiority of any particular cable metal or alloy or cable parts (coverings etc..) over another. I dont even fully understand the differning cable design/ theories enough to care? But, I do find that different cables do sound different for whatever reason and that I have clear preferances.

Some cables just make the presentaion of the gear better sounding to me than others.

I recently bought a few coax digital interconnects to use with a zap filtered Zhalou dac and an Ori Modded Zhalou dac. The first one was a Blue Jean's (BJ) standard digital, the second a BJ's stranded wire type for more flexibility in a tight spot and finally an Enigma Audio (EA) digital IC. The cables used the same transports, analog IC's, amp and headphone. Moreover, when I switched a variable I made the switch for both.

The EA was definitely superior to my ears regardless of the system. So much so that I didnt particularly care for the OMZ with either BJ's cable, while I was very pleased with the sound using the EA cable. The BJ's cable sounded closed in and compressed with the OMZ. The result was the same with the zap filtered Zhalou and I definitely preferred the EA , although the highly dynamic, brighter, faster sound of this dac seemed slightly less affected by the BJ's signature.

Therefore, my take is while one given digital cable may not be intrinsically better than any others; some cables are better matches than others in a given system. So, before you accept that all cables sound the same you might want to do some listening and comparison in your system. In this case, to my ears, the difference between the BJ's cables and the EA cable was the difference between average sound and excellent sound.
post #27 of 53
Interesting, but doesn't surprise me. Were all cables the same length (and what length was that)? Who is Enigma Audio btw?

Thanks.
post #28 of 53
I have one pair of XLR-RCA Enigma Cables that were built for the Lavry and I have used them for a long time until I got a set of David "R" series over Christmas. The Enigma cables will get used again when my second Lavry comes in this week. I will have to wait a while to get a second pair of Virtual Dynamics RCAs and Digital cables.
post #29 of 53
People, *READ* this article before going on with your spdif arguments. It's one of the better articles on the whole digital audio transmission and why "bits" are not just bits when it comes to digital AUDIO.

Digital video transmission is an entirely different animal altogether BTW.
post #30 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L View Post
People, *READ* this article before going on with your spdif arguments. It's one of the better articles on the whole digital audio transmission and why "bits" are not just bits when it comes to digital AUDIO.
Bits ARE just bits. 10 (base 2) is the same mathematical number as 10 (base 2) just as 2 (base 10) is the same mathematical number as 2 (base 10). You can count on one end of a system and if the number on the other end of the system is the same, it's the same. Period. As far as I know, the axiom of identity has not been disproved, even in the bizarre-o audiophile world.

Jitter is a different animal altogether which has to do with timing errors and there are instruments that can correct for timing errors. Cables can contribute to jitter when using S/PDIF, but almost every DAC on earth reclocks what is fed to it.

S/PDIF may have limitations, but no digital cable is going to correct those limitations. None, nada, never, no how. 2=2. If your digital cable isn't 100% transparent, something is wrong with your cable that has nothing to do with S/PDIF.

--Chris
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