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Is it time to boycott cable companies? - Page 6

post #76 of 411
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Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
guaranteed absolutely neutral and non-audiophile.
You've got some mutual exclusivity going on there.

See ya
Steve
post #77 of 411
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I also fail to have read about any study that has ever concluded that different cables sound different from one another, not even if one is better than the other.
Then why on earth don't you simply use the stock RCA cables that came with your gear? Why would you invest $40 whole dollars on Blue jeans Cable when you know they are pure bunk?
post #78 of 411
That's a bingo, Markl. As long as the stock cables are properly shielded and the connectors make good solid connection, there is absolutely no reason to spend $40 on a replacement. That would be silly. Spending more than $40 would be even more silly, depending on how much money you waste on it.

See ya
Steve
post #79 of 411
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Originally Posted by monolith View Post
I would argue that luxury is defined by its affects rather than its pricetag. A Nordost Odin power cable would still be a luxury item if it cost $50.
While it might still be a luxury item at $50, it would be more 'luxurious' at $5,000 or $50,000.

The level of luxury is defined by the price.

A $5,000 mud bath using mud crushed by virgins using rocks blessed by some voodoo holy man in some far away land is way more luxurious than a mud bath using dirt from your backyard. Is it better in any way? Who knows, but it sure sounds more luxurious.
post #80 of 411
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Originally Posted by OverlordXenu View Post
So not making false claims makes them have an ulterior motive?
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Originally Posted by hempcamp View Post
This is the most bizarre logic I have encountered in a long time. -- It's like saying professional nutritionists with a high rate of successful weight-loss treatment are tricksters in the same boat as late-nite TV infomercials that push no exercise/eat as much as you want diet pills.
It seems to take «cable believers» such as Mark for deciphring the obvious message between the lines in my posts. BJC's marketing strategy -- relying on some technical keywords and taking distance to audiophilia -- apparently is too clever for some of the «skeptics».

All cables sound the same, right? (With very few exceptions purposely trimmed for coloration.) The interconnects that came with my CD players (Philips, Sony...) or my amps (Hitachi, Stax...) were built very robust, properly shielded and even of decent esthetics (not really my concern, though). They did their job perfectly and cost nothing. I'm sure almost every Head-Fier has some decent OEM cables around, and if not, there will be a friend to help him/her out. So why pay $30 or $35 for something we already have or can buy for $10 elsewhere?

I'm not accusing Blue Jeans Cable by any means. It seems to be a fair company, and their prices are decent. Also, I'm quite sure that their cables sound quite a bit better than usual OEM cables. However, their claim still stands: you can't get any «better» (= more neutral and accurate sounding) cables than the ones that they sell. And many people believe it.
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post #81 of 411
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Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
Also, I'm quite sure that their cables sound quite a bit better than usual OEM cables.

Do BJC make this outrageous, unsubstantiated claim? Or do their supporters?
post #82 of 411
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Do BJC make this outrageous, unsubstantiated claim? Or do their supporters?
If Blue Jeans wants you to believe that all cables are the same, why are they in business when you can just use the freebies that come with your components? It's an interesting sales pitch: "Please buy and use our expensive products instead of the free ones that came with your gear; you won't hear or see a difference because all cables are the same, but please buy from us anyway-- baby needs a new pair of shoes."

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So not making false claims makes them have an ulterior motive?
Well, let's take a look at some statements on their site and you be the judge...

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Naturally, whenever the subject of premium cabling for home a/v systems comes up, the important question arises: does wire really matter?

The answer is that sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't, and that when it does, it's a purely subjective question whether the improvement in sound or picture is really worth it.
In other words, yes, our cables do make a difference, but that difference is subjective and only you can decide if it's worth the extra expense. We can't prove it to you, so please buy them and pray you can hear a subjective difference.

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Absent some sort of known malfunction, there's very little reason to think that replacement of control or power cables will improve your system's performance at all. There have been a lot of strange claims made in recent years about power cords, and people paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars for them; but the fact is that a power cord, so long as it's well-constructed and undamaged, correctly sized for the load, and driving a reasonably well-designed power supply, should make no difference whatsoever to the sound of your system. The same goes for these other non-signal cables. If they seem to be working, don't mess with them.
Our position is that cables not in the signal path such as power cords do not make a difference (and so we don't make them), however, for cables in the signal path, well, that's a different story.

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But the thing that you need to know is that a cable doesn't simply shunt electricity from one point to another without alteration. The manner and extent to which a cable deviates from that ideal is directly related to the physical structure of the cable and its connectors.
In other words, the parts and construction you use in building cables does make a difference in sound quality and are not all the same.

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The extent to which a cable does any or all of these things to a signal is determined by the cable's physical structure and the environment in which it operates. Attenuation of the signal is directly related to the nature and configuration of the conductors.
Cable geometry (considered voodoo by flat-erathers) does matter. So all that Cardas Golden Section nonsense is valid and can make a difefernce, according to BJC.

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Ditto for the connectors, which contribute their own capacitance, inductance, and shielding characteristics,
i.e. there just might be something to fancy connectors such as WBT, Furutech, etc.

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But the fact is that these basic, well-known aspects of an audio/video cable are the fundamentals which control whether it conveys a signal poorly, satisfactorily, or exceptionally well.
So, there are good cables, mediocre cables, and bad cables. They are not all created equal. So, who's to say BJC has accidentally stumbled upon the magic formula for the "perfect" cable? Just by using stock wire? What an amazing coincidence.

Bottom line-- if you are open to the idea that BJC cables are "better" than stock cables, then you must be open to the idea that some other cable manufacturer has created a cable "better" than Blue Jeans. If there are shades of goodness in a cable, then there are cables out there that out-perform BJC's off-the-shelf stuff.

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Better cables will deliver cleaner signals throughout your a/v system; that's a fact, which can be objectively proven.
Not all cables created the same, and some (presumably theirs) will deliver better signal which is audible.

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But how does that translate into what you see and hear when you watch and listen? It's fair to say that people differ greatly in their ability to tell the difference between cables or components, and meanwhile, systems vary in their response to different cables.
i.e. we're with the wackos on Head-Fi who can hear more differences between cables than any of the flat-earthers. Not all ears are created equal, not all people can discern the same differences. "System synergy", another piece of audiophile voodoo is also real. Cables will sound "diufferent" in different systems.

I got all that from just one of their pages.

Dudes have to ask yourselves if BJC is so on the level and are with the skeptics, why are they in business? To re-sell you something they agree you can get for free with your gear? their very existence says that they believe cables matter.

Either that or they are one cynical-ass business who know the products they make are bogus and that there's a sucker born every minute (with their suckers being cheaper than the suckers that buy more expensive boutique cables).
post #83 of 411
It has been established that people don't read what manufacturer's say assuming it is not worth reading I presume. And this is apparently because they are selling something and because of those sales efforts they are trying to rip us off as someone said concerning the field of sales somewhere above or on another similar thread.
post #84 of 411
P.S. I've looked all over BJC's site and nowhere do I see any double-blind tests that show that their cables are superior to any other. Nor do I see any lab analysis or measurements of any of their cables.

So, all the above claims are just as unsubstantiated as any other cable manufacturers' out there.


Again, look at the marketing pitch of BJC--

1. We know cables matter, and that not all cables perform the same.

2. But we want to sell the cheapest possible upgrade to a ceratain market segment.

3. We've identified a niche in the aftermarket cable market at the very bottom that is going largely unserved by the other boutique cable makers. There's too many focused at the top, so we'll try to take the bottom of the market.

4. If we use fancy custom-made wire, ultra-fnacy connectors and spend time developing a specialty product, it will have to be priced out of the range of this niche we've identified. So, we'll just use off-the-shelf components bought in bulk.

5. This market segment, being that they are not well-heeled enough to afford the more expensive boutique stuff (they secretly lust after-- shhhhhhh), can be convinced that it's all bunk and that only the most plain vanilla cable is all they will ever need. It's natural for them to want to believe that it's only silly audiofools with more money than brains that buy the expensive stuff, so we'll take advantage of that and claim our cables function just as well for a lot less money--- a price even they could afford. See, they aren't economically disadvantaged or cheap, they're merely thrifty people who see through all the snake oil that more expensive brands use. Oh, those dumb, rich audiophiles. They'll buy anything. But not our customers, they want a low-key pitch, where we subtly take digs at audiophiles too, so we'll use that to our advantage.


BJC is not some bastion of common-sense, cable skeptics. They are a business who have identified you as apotential customer and tailored their product (and message) to fit.
post #85 of 411
Some people have money so they spend it on charity :P

I think it's the human perfectionism that doesn't let them sleep if they don't have their signal chain absolutely perfect.
The aftermarket cable manufacturers just fill the gap and use common advertising techniques (sometimes as unreal as cold war propaganda).
post #86 of 411
There is no moral difference between buying a Senn HD650 to replace a pair of stock phones than buying an aftermarket cable to replace a stock cable.

If you think so, then you should also chastize the people wasting $40 on Blue Jeans Cables when that could feed a homeless man for a few days.

Also, what kind of jeans do you wear? Wal-mart specials or do they have a label and cost you $10-$40 more?
post #87 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
This market segment, being that they are not well-heeled enough to afford the more expensive boutique stuff (they secretly lust after-- shhhhhhh), can be convinced that it's all bunk and that only the most plain vanilla cable is all they will ever need.
I can't help but wonder if you actually believe this, or if you write it simply to provoke a reaction. Either way, it's really kind of sad. I can honestly say that I hope that I never need to be as "well-heeled" as you in order to enjoy music.
post #88 of 411
It is provocative, isn't it? And yes, that's the whole point. Be as provactive as those arguing the other point to splash cold water in the face so people can't miss the fallacies in their arguments. I'm under no special constraint to behave better than others on the board who have posted herein.


That said, you should agree there is a general trend of cable skeptics being young people new to the audio hobby. I think that's a very fair assessment based on what we've see here over the last years since that wave of folks came in.

Now, when I was in college eating Ramen every day to survive, I couldn't have afforded fancy aftermarket cables either. But as an adult, things change.
post #89 of 411
omg can't we simply leave well enough alone... If someone wants to spend a few hundred bucks on a cable that may or may not improve there system who is anyone here to stand on their soapbox to stop them?
MarkL actually brings up a point with his denim jeans comment, people buy what they want to buy based on how they feel about the purchase. Nike sneakers do not make you jump higher or run faster, they just cost you triple what the off brand does, generic cereal is often made in the same factory as name brands costing double. Hey and there are well known cable brands that use the same wires that BJC uses. Some high priced brands do not manufacture there own cables but third party them out. People should feel free to buy what they want.

While I think people should focus first on the main section of their rigs first who am I to tell you how to spend you hard earned cash. If you want a $300 darkvoice paired with a $300 set of kimber ICs that is your choice. Personally I would buy a $550 amp and $50 ICs but it's not my money it's person making the purchase.
post #90 of 411
I think it sums it up in that if someone is going to buy an aftermarket cable they have already bought into the ???? is better.

If the cable that came with the unit (assuming a cable was provided) is defective, ie. the connector is falling off, there is a split in the wire...etc., what is wrong with that cable?

Why not go to Wal-mart or your local home store, not only will you save money, there are no shipping charges. Wal-mart and my local home store both sell Belkin manufactured cables.

Why would anyone want to have a more expensive cable, from a boutique vendor?

Is it for quality of construction? Without disecting both, how would one know.

Appearance?

Sound quality?

Status?

The first rung on the up-grade ladder?

Any I missed?
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