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Copper vs silver cables - Page 6

post #76 of 157
2/11/08 at 1:18pm
So, you think that classical recording engineers just use whatever is handy, and have never compared cables?
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post #77 of 157
2/11/08 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sejarzo View Post
So, you think that classical recording engineers just use whatever is handy, and have never compared cables?
I don't really know -- but why should they? If science tells them they don't have to care, they probably won't. If at all, certainly not with the meticulousness and fanatism of some audiophiles.

Every profession has its specializations: Musicians are specialized in playing music, recording engineers are specialized in recording gear, measuring data and a flat frequency response, also monitoring of the recording, audiophiles are specialized in listening to recorded music, sound and their systems.
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post #78 of 157
2/11/08 at 1:55pm
Why every single thread started here gets hijacked by the same non-believers? That's just so irritating, is there any way to filter some users out?
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post #79 of 157
2/11/08 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
Every profession has its specializations: Musicians are specialized in playing music, recording engineers are specialized in recording gear, measuring data and a flat frequency response, also monitoring of the recording, audiophiles are specialized in listening to recorded music, sound and their systems.
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If you are claiming that recording engineers are NOT "specialized in listening to recorded music, sound, and their systems"......it's the most freakin' ridiculous claim I've ever read.
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post #80 of 157
2/11/08 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sejarzo View Post
If you are claiming that recording engineers are NOT "specialized in listening to recorded music, sound, and their systems"......it's the most freakin' ridiculous claim I've ever read.
Really? And what about audiophile music lovers which you seem to belittle?
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post #81 of 157
2/11/08 at 2:15pm
I just wonder, who in a recording studio, decides what equipment is used?
Who decides what cables are actually present and installed to do a recording?
Do recording engineers do that? Or do they just work with what the studio has available / installed?
I think, most studios probaly basically use the same cable...
I also think economic factors in choosing which cable to use are rather important...
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post #82 of 157
2/11/08 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees View Post
I just wonder, who in a recording studio, decides what equipment is used?
Who decides what cables are actually present and installed to do a recording?
Do recording engineers do that? Or do they just work with what the studio has available / installed?
I think, most studios probaly basically use the same cable...
I also think economic factors in choosing which cable to use are rather important...
VERY, VERY good points. Who decides the microphone? have you ever listened to the differences microphones make? It makes all this squabbling over silver vs copper insignificant.

I posted this on another circular thread:

Quote:
This stuff ends up going in circles, the people blessed with "golden ears" will continue to defend the cable difference. The rest of the poor "unblessed" people, like me, will never be convinced because I/we were not blessed with the "golden ears"

The golden eared people will continue to say that the hearing differences can not be measured, even though EVERYTHING to do with audio and computer design is measured, calculated, and uses the scientific method. Golden eared people have sensory inputs that far exceed the finest measuring equipment when it comes to audio.

Funny, there are no "golden eyed" people that can see better than video test equipment.
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post #83 of 157
2/11/08 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
Really? And what about audiophile music lovers which you seem to belittle?
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I didn't belittle anyone.....I think you painted all recording engineers with a ludicrously wide brush, in fact.

Classical recordings are very rarely done in studios with "whatever is there"--they are done in real performance spaces, and not with any pre-installed gear. The recording engineer works with what he has selected for the project, down to the last detail. I know one in particular that has top-notch recording gear, a mastering studio full of audiophile-grade DAC's, amps, and speakers, plus is an accomplished violin and horn player and teacher.

His gear is all selected based on what provides the most natural and accurate sound possible.....and he uses standard Mogami raw cable, usually terminated in standard Neutrik XLR's.
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post #84 of 157
2/11/08 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sejarzo View Post
I didn't belittle anyone.....I think you painted all recording engineers with a ludicrously wide brush, in fact.

Classical recordings are very rarely done in studios with "whatever is there"--they are done in real performance spaces, and not with any pre-installed gear. The recording engineer works with what he has selected for the project, down to the last detail. I know one in particular that has top-notch recording gear, a mastering studio full of audiophile-grade DAC's, amps, and speakers, plus is an accomplished violin and horn player and teacher.

His gear is all selected based on what provides the most natural and accurate sound possible.....and he uses standard Mogami raw cable, usually terminated in standard Neutrik XLR's.
That's his own decision. I don't think any non-audiophile cable limits sound quality in a way that an audiophile setup can't show its potential. But he arbitrarily sacrifices the last 3.3%...

I may have painted recording engineers with a somewhat large brush, but in turn you seem to be afflicted with a cliché: that audio pros necessarily have a better hearing than audiophile music consumers -- and a more open mind due to their technical background. Whereas I say: the latter point may even be a handicap.
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post #85 of 157
2/11/08 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post
Why every single thread started here gets hijacked by the same non-believers? That's just so irritating, is there any way to filter some users out?
Why did a thread started by a reasonable skeptic/non-believer about digital cables get hijacked by a believer?

As far as I can tell, this forum is not limited to threads started by believers.
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post #86 of 157
2/11/08 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
That's his own decision. I don't think any non-audiophile cable limits sound quality in a way that an audiophile setup can't show its potential. But he arbitrarily sacrifices the last 3.3%...
Please answer this: What recording studios/engineers use what you believe to be "audiophile cables"? What makes a cable used in the recording chain "non-audiophile"? What errors do "non-audiophile" cables introduce?

Are you claiming that all studios/engineers are (probably?) using cabling that limits the potential quality of their recordings?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
I may have painted recording engineers with a somewhat large brush, but in turn you seem to be afflicted with a cliché: that audio pros necessarily have a better hearing than audiophile music consumers -- and a more open mind due to their technical background. Whereas I say: the latter point may even be a handicap.
Knowledge is rarely a handicap.
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post #87 of 157
2/11/08 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
I don't really know
See, we don't always disagree!

See ya
Steve
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post #88 of 157
2/11/08 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees View Post
I just wonder, who in a recording studio, decides what equipment is used?
This is all generalized. Each studio will have a slightly different setup, depending on how big it is and the particular talents of the people working there...

Every studio has a head engineer, whose job it is to design and build the various bays, booths and machine rooms. They're interesting people to talk to, because they can speak for hours about each and every choice they made in designing the space. All of the wiring (except mike and instrument cables) is hard wired into the mixing board and runs through the floors and walls. It's generally just standard grade cable that they buy on huge spindles. Once the bays are all built, the head engineer moves to supervising the fire crew... the group of engineers that are always on call to fix equipment when it acts up.

The recording is supervised by a producer and engineer, who make the choices about tracking, miking and mixing. The producer works with the creatives and the engineer works with the techs. The engineer usually has an assistant who sets things up and breaks them down and operates stuff when the engineer needs an extra set of hands. When video is involved, there's usually a machine room full of decks that are run by a team of specialized engineers who feed the picture into the bay.

Hope this helps
Steve
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post #89 of 157
2/11/08 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post
Why every single thread started here gets hijacked by the same non-believers? That's just so irritating, is there any way to filter some users out?
pretty much every thread in this part of the forum is useless.
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post #90 of 157
2/11/08 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sejarzo View Post
Please answer this: What recording studios/engineers use what you believe to be "audiophile cables"? What makes a cable used in the recording chain "non-audiophile"? What errors do "non-audiophile" cables introduce?
How can I know what cables recording studios use! But according to some people who should know most of them use standard cable (see above), although someone in another thread posted examples of studios using audiophile cabling. I guess Chesky Records known for their audiophile approach will put some importance on cabling.

It's fruitless to ask for measuring data standing for audiophile quality -- nobody can tell which measuring criteria cause which sonic characteristic. The same applies e.g. for amps. We're running in circles with such a discussion. Audiophile cables just are those which make the sound in your stereo setup (subjectively) better than standard cables.

Quote:
Are you claiming that all studios/engineers are (probably?) using cabling that limits the potential quality of their recordings?
There's a high likeliness for that. But since more or less all recordings are affected, we're used to this quality standard. Moreover, it's absolutely not clear that it's the standard cables which introduce «errors», it could just as well be the audiophile cables -- although I rather doubt it.

Quote:
Knowledge is rarely a handicap.
Rarely, perhaps, but you can imagine how it could be in this case?
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