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Copper vs silver cables - Page 3  

post #31 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
You may not have control of sloppy recording quality, but if you can recognize it when you hear it, you can avoid wasting money buying expensive wires or equipment to try to improve what can't be fixed.

As for speakers vs. headphones... The same rule of thumb holds true for headphones as for speakers... it's best to spend the bulk of your budget on the transducers, not the electronics. But that said, headphones are never going to give you as good of an experience as really good speakers. Cans are fine for casual listening or times or places when you just can't use speakers. But speakers are the only way to experience music the way it's intended to be heard. If you're really serious about great sound, you need speakers.

See ya
Steve
So you can recognize a bad recording when you hear it but you cant recognize a poor sounding or good sounding cable match?

Speakers are more realistic IMO as well, but again, this is a headphone site so many people simply dont care about your speaker/ room acoustics advice. However, you CAN get great sound with headphones that is equally satisfying. Listen to a cd player with a high quality discrete output stage that matches the quality of the digital section, connected to a good tube amp and your favorite headphone ....
post #32 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
So you can recognize a bad recording when you hear it but you cant recognize a poor sounding or good sounding cable match?
I've supervised recording and mixing for CD and TV release. I can recognize sloppy engineering when I hear it. Cables should be neutral. If they color the sound, they are defective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
Speakers are more realistic IMO as well, but again, this is a headphone site so many people simply dont care about your speaker/ room acoustics advice.
Featured Full Reviews of Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories

See ya
Steve
post #33 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmacbeastie View Post
Personally, I think a test where the listener does not know a damn thing about anything is best, Philodox. This way there should be no preconceived ideas or conclusions.
Theoretically, yes. But the test in question was based on preconceived ideas, namely the three types of cables to which the perceived characteristic had to be attributed, although none of the participants had heard them before -- a real nonsense.

Quote:
...I am a firm believer that the information is always present regardless of the cable, the difference in sound in just your perception. Your perception of that information CAN make cables sound different though. I am not talking about placebo at all either. I truly believe that the material and construction method used cannot alter the sound, just your perception of it! My gold plated silver/copper/gold alloy cables sound best to me but I am not suggesting that there is more or less info, bass weight, treble smoothness, or midrange purity, just that my body and mind work better alongside these materials.

When I am happy and healthy, silver and copper sound very similar to me. At a little stress, lack of sleep (my problem) and the silver is very tiring and often bright in my system. The alloy I am using tends to sound the same all of the time. This is why EE will often argue that there is no way the metal used can mechanically alter the sound, because they don't (IMHO)! It happens to sound different on a level that occurs in your physiology. The whole metaphysical thing! Nobel prize winning scientists (not EE's) believe in the metaphysical attributes of conductors so I feel OK about my ideas. Not to say that EE's ideas are not sound, just that they generally regurgitate theory accepted as fact and taught to them, not create theory to further science.
Interesting thoughts -- which I wouldn't have dared to mention in a technics-oriented forum like this. Personally I think that openness towards the possiblity of sonic differences is the key, and I also leave the possibility open that there's in fact no physical process in play, but a metaphysical one. Still I rather bet on the physical scenario nonetheless.

Quote:
However, if my and some of the top research minds' theories do not please you and you want a empirical approach, carbon is by far a better conductor over any of the previously mentioned...
Conductivity per se is no quality criterion with audio signal transmission. Input impedances of the concerned amps are in the thousands of ohms, so the resistance of interconnect cables has absolutely no meaning, as long as its clearly below 10 ohm (which it is in any known case) -- otherwise some hum may occur because of the loose ground connection (that's the case with my homegrown carbon-fibre cables). Speaker cables better be low impedance, though, otherwise a low damping factor may lead to a boomy bass. Apart from that, the sound will barely suffer, though, also lower conductivity can be compensated by wire gauge.

However, I have experimented a lot with different conductor materials and cables geometries, and the presence of silver definitely shows a certain impact to my ears, which largely corresponds to what's been mentioned.
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post #34 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by 883dave View Post
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that on a HEADPHONE site...you are trying to give newbies direction... "If you're really serious about great sound, you need speakers"
Recording engineers don't use headphones. There's a reason for that. The only time headphones are used in a studio, it's in the booth to isolate playback from being picked up by the mike. If you're really serious about great sound, you need speakers.

See ya
Steve
post #35 of 245
...Featured Full Reviews of Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories...
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post #36 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
Recording engineers don't use headphones. There's a reason for that. The only time headphones are used in a studio, it's in the booth to isolate playback from being picked up by the mike. If you're really serious about great sound, you need speakers.
I've been into speakers probably more than anybody else on this forum -- and now I enjoy my headphones immensely. I'd clearly prefer speakers for monitoring recordings, though (one flop using headphones is enough).
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post #37 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post



To be honest, I really don't care. I'm sharing what I know for the benefit of newbies who need direction as to where they should best focus their attention. I'm trying to help them understand the basic concepts, so they can get a great sounding system without a lot of trial and error. You can feel free to do whatever you please. I was just replying to your claim that I don't think anything makes a difference. That clearly isn't true.

See ya
Steve

What .... you cant answer a few simple questions? What are you afraid of Steve?

As for your claim you are sharing to benefit newbies .... lots of people are doing the same. But, clearly some of us do not have the same opinions as you. Cable performance may not have any concrete price/ performance relationship. But, cables do sound different and depending on what they are connected to they can make anything from no difference to a very noticeable difference. I believe if you dont do a little cable experimentation you will never truly get the most out of your system. I have been a music lover all my life, DIYer and audio experimenter for for nearly 40 years and in my experience there is no doubt there are cable differences from my audio experiences.

To answer the questions .... I use $6 volex 17604 power cords on all my equipment. Why? I tried some different high end .... or whatever you call them power cords. Again, they sound different but I didnt get any performance advantages over cheap cords. The cheap volex cords actually sound noticeably better to me on my tube amps and I am thrilled they do. The "high end" power cords are long gone.

I have used every type of IC from the stock IC that came with a unit to some fairly expensive name brand stuff like MIT. IC's make a definite difference to me which makes sense since they ARE the signal path. Cheap stock IC's, IC's from Radio Shack etc... have never offered the musical satisfaction I demand. Name brand IC's are hit and miss but some do synergize very well in my setups.

But, I dont like to pay the high price tag for the ones that do synergize. So to get around this I go through DIYers and get a better quality IC at a substantially lower price. Unfortunately, to get the best match you still have to experiement. A cable that is awesome in one setup will not sound so perfect in another.

Much of the cable resistance appears to be this sticking point .... the expectation a cable will always sound superior in every situation. Price, wire gauge, wire type etc... have no bearing on what will work best in any given system or situation; you have to hook them up and listen. I only consider an IC cable unfit if the cable will not offer a minimum good sound quality level with at least one setup. What is this minimum sound quality level? I dont know .... but I do know when I hear it. Just like I know when I hear a good recording vs a bad one.

I have some pure copper, gold alloy and silver / gold alloy hybrid IC's. Each one has a system they excell in. But, none are the answer for every setup.

Digital cables, again I have experimented quite a bit here and there are differences in presentation and resolution that matter. I dont think digital cables matter as much these days with the newer input receivers and better digital clocks vs pre 2000 digital. But, the inexpensive BJ's digital and the like just have not worked for me, even though on paper, the BJ cable seems to be a perfect solution. I have tried more expensive cables but I preferred a cable that cost $50.

My DIY cable maker turned into Enigma Audio and I asked for the cheapest cable he made and got this $50 wonder. The difference is to the level, for example, I dont care for the OMZ dac with the BJ cable vs I am very pleased with the OMZ dac with the Enigma Audio cable.

Saying expensive cables are overpriced, which I agree with in most cases, is much different than saying all cables sound the same. Saying an expensive cable will provide a better sound quality in every case, which I dont agree with, is much different than saying all cables sound the same. Saying all cables, be the they copper, silver or an alloy, regardless of the design and manufacturer all sound the same is foolish .... my eight year old can tell there is a difference. Hence, my question if you really do listen with an open mind.

I am in no way tied to price as an indication of quality. I am in no way convinced any particular cable materials or metals will always offer superior sound. But, throwing in just any cable, particularly interconnects, with high resolution componenets can be asking for disappointment. If you put in any cable in your system and the sound is good enough for you .... congratulations. I get lucky on the first try sometimes too. But, sometmes that is not the case and I have to try a few different cables to get the sound to sound right.

So, I have some advice for newbies myself. Dont accept theory, hype and spec sheets .... listen and have an open mind. Listening will tell you all you need to know. If a componenet or cable makes a difference to YOU that is what matters.

Cheers, see ya
post #38 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
Recording engineers don't use headphones. There's a reason for that. The only time headphones are used in a studio, it's in the booth to isolate playback from being picked up by the mike. If you're really serious about great sound, you need speakers.

See ya
Steve

How did your answer address this question?

Originally Posted by 883dave
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that on a HEADPHONE site...you are trying to give newbies direction... "If you're really serious about great sound, you need speakers"

Let me interpret that for you Steve .... speakers are irrelevant if we are using headphones. This is a headphone site. We are using headphones for a reason. We may even want speakers but due to some factor can not use them. In my case, that would be because the speakers would interfere with homework, my wifes need for quiet after a long day at work, TV time .... and later sleep. I love speakers but I in no way feel cheated listening to my headphones .... and sometimes the intimacy and isolation is even preferable.
post #39 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmacbeastie View Post
Personally, I think at test where the listener does not know a damn thing about anything is best Philodox.
You can't be asked to guess which is which if you have no frame of reference but heresay. It is like someone describing his daughter to you then lining up a bunch of people and asking that you pick Molly out of the lineup. Actually it is even more vague than that, but you get the idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
Theoretically, yes. But the test in question was based on preconceived ideas, namely the three types of cables to which the perceived characteristic had to be attributed, although none of the participants had heard them before -- a real nonsense.
Exactly, and thanks for the spelling correction.
post #40 of 245
I currently own solid silver interconnects and I have owned several pairs of very expensive solid silver (not plated) interconnects in the past.

What influence on the flow of electrons does silver have that copper doesn't? beside a slightly lower resistance (5.505 %
per foot) ?

In what way does that influence affect audio reproduction?
post #41 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
I've supervised recording and mixing for CD and TV release. I can recognize sloppy engineering when I hear it. Cables should be neutral. If they color the sound, they are defective.

See ya
Steve
Which does not remotely address my question.

Originally Posted by sacd lover
So you can recognize a bad recording when you hear it but you cant recognize a poor sounding or good sounding cable match?

Let me help you out Steve.

So you can recognize a bad recording when you hear it .... think globally here, meaning we, not just you (everything is not just about Steve) have the ability to identify good vs bad recordings because we can identify when something sounds wrong.

but you cant recognize a poor sounding or good sounding cable match? .... meaning we can recognize good vs poor recording quality but you claim we cant tell when a cable is well matched or poorly matched to our stereo systems because all cables sound the same.

Now you state cables should be neutral and if they color the sound they are defective. What cables are neutral and what cables are colored and thus defective? Could you give me some examples? Because I am not sure I have never heard a cable that is completely neutral and I have no idea what cables are defective.
post #42 of 245
Apparently no cables color the sound, and all cables are neutral, because they all sound the same.
post #43 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
Recording engineers don't use headphones. There's a reason for that. The only time headphones are used in a studio, it's in the booth to isolate playback from being picked up by the mike. If you're really serious about great sound, you need speakers.

See ya
Steve

What I find strange is that many times you have made yourself the champion of the Newbies...don't waste your money on cables, all CD players and amps sound the same...spend your money on good recordings...
Then you say "Oh and if you are SERIOUS about listening to music you have to get Speakers". I am willing to bet that most if not all the people on this site are SERIOUS about listening to music.

Even though this is a SPEAKER sub forum the reason people and newbies are here is all in the name...HEAD-FI.

If you are truly interested in helping newbies, give them information that is not wholly biased to your own beliefs.

Steve do you actually listen to Headphones at your home? If so what make and model
post #44 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by 883dave View Post
What I find strange is that many times you have made yourself the champion of the Newbies...don't waste your money on cables, all CD players and amps sound the same...spend your money on good recordings...
Then you say "Oh and if you are SERIOUS about listening to music you have to get Speakers". I am willing to bet that most if not all the people on this site are SERIOUS about listening to music.

Even though this is a SPEAKER sub forum the reason people and newbies are here is all in the name...HEAD-FI.

If you are truly interested in helping newbies, give them information that is not wholly biased to your own beliefs.

Steve do you actually listen to Headphones at your home? If so what make and model
I think you need to calm down and take a deep breath, you're coming across a bit harsh.
post #45 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverlordXenu View Post
I think you need to calm down and take a deep breath, you're coming across a bit harsh.
Why do you feel the need to answer for someone else?
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