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Copper vs silver cables - Page 11  

post #151 of 245

Yeah I'm not trying to say cables don't make a difference because I have seen way more people that instantly notice a difference. I have noticed speaker wire is up in debate while almost everyone agrees recabling headphones makes a difference. I have just read so many articles about blind tests and how a rusty coat hanger scrubbed off at the ends will transfer a signal just as good as any copper wire and how interconnects don't make any difference but speaker wire could or another article will say nothing makes and audio able change or everything does its so confusing.

 

Also the advantage of resistance that silver has over copper is nothing compared to using one gauge bigger of copper, like 5% to %40 IIRC. So Silver must have some other magic property that makes it perform different from copper.

 

But even Fostexs and Denon must agree with OFC sounding better cabling higher up headphones with better cables.

 

And people say gold sounds even better, and you know what I bet platinum is even better and cut up 100 dollar bills and diamonds even better.

 

Wouldn't the ultimate audiophile system be a DAC welded, either directly or with a solid chunk of copper, to the amp and then directly welded to the speaker voice coil?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

The goal in this hobby is removing every contaminant from the signal so that it can be as pure as possible at the driver. Cost constraints will limit the purity of signal. We find as many weaknesses and minimize them but there is still some level of contamination because of the physics of a system. The simpler and shorter the better. Ideally, the output of the analog section of the source should go directly to the input of the amps gain stage. Putting extra connectors, wire, solder, etc. adds to the contamination. The least amount of RLC from ideal that is added to the circuit will sound the best. If we have to live with some preconditions in the components, that's the cost. You can order gear with silver internal wiring, solder, transformers, etc. if ya wanna, for a cost. The goal of a vendor isn't to make the best possible gear but least amount of compromises for the cost.
Looking at the insides, most of the money spent on a piece is it's power supply. The signal circuit is kept as minimal as possible.
KISS applies.

I agree, but another thing I don't get is why "PURE" even sounds good when the cables used to record the stuff and in the electronic instruments them selves aren't even close to the same quality, most people seem to jump on OFC and then get into Teflon or PE dielectric but beyond that its a crazy world of audiophiles and headphone nuts that every one else thinks is crazy.


Edited by ScaryFatKidGT - 9/25/12 at 2:34am
post #152 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post

I agree, but another thing I don't get is why "PURE" even sounds good when the cables used to record the stuff and in the electronic instruments them selves aren't even close to the same quality, most people seem to jump on OFC and then get into Teflon or PE dielectric but beyond that its a crazy world of audiophiles and headphone nuts that every one else thinks is crazy.

 

I keep my feet on the ground by periodically remembering this fact. There's no point in using anything better than the recording studio, who will typically use high quality components interconnected with unbranded bargain bucket cables.

post #153 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agarvaen View Post

When upgrading cables would you say interconnects for AMP and DAC are more important or headphone cable?

 

Depends on the output impedance of each device I suppose. A device with high output impedance will pick up more noise in the downstream cable than a device with low output impedance. This is why you can use unshielded speaker wire out of a power amp (very low output impedance) but may need a shielded interconnect (if your DAC or whatever has a high output impedance).

 

It's also the only reason I can think of for needing a fancy headphone cable (if your headphone amp has a high output impedance *cough tube amp cough* perhaps it could pick up noise in the cable?).

post #154 of 245
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
 

Yeah I'm not trying to say cables don't make a difference because I have seen way more people that instantly notice a difference. I have noticed speaker wire is up in debate while almost everyone agrees recabling headphones makes a difference. I have just read so many articles about blind tests and how a rusty coat hanger scrubbed off at the ends will transfer a signal just as good as any copper wire and how interconnects don't make any difference but speaker wire could or another article will say nothing makes and audio able change or everything does its so confusing.

 

Also the advantage of resistance that silver has over copper is nothing compared to using one gauge bigger of copper, like 5% to %40 IIRC. So Silver must have some other magic property that makes it perform different from copper.

 

But even Fostexs and Denon must agree with OFC sounding better cabling higher up headphones with better cables.

 

And people say gold sounds even better, and you know what I bet platinum is even better and cut up 100 dollar bills and diamonds even better.

 

Wouldn't the ultimate audiophile system be a DAC welded, either directly or with a solid chunk of copper, to the amp and then directly welded to the speaker voice coil?

I agree, but another thing I don't get is why "PURE" even sounds good when the cables used to record the stuff and in the electronic instruments them selves aren't even close to the same quality, most people seem to jump on OFC and then get into Teflon or PE dielectric but beyond that its a crazy world of audiophiles and headphone nuts that every one else thinks is crazy.

 

diamond in the bowers and wilkins speakers actually do sound pretty good tongue.gif

sorry for derailing the thread...

post #155 of 245
Waiting for my new cables that I'm diying to come in the mail, I got ofc copper for the headphones, and silver for the interconnect. I did it because I read silver has very good highs and definition, and copper has good lows.. u know what I mean I'm trying to have a piece of both worlds. This is my first time with cable audiophiles so I'm still not sure if it will make a difference in sound but theyre gunna look awsome so eather way ill be happy with them
post #156 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by green-fi mk2s View Post

Waiting for my new cables that I'm diying to come in the mail, I got ofc copper for the headphones, and silver for the interconnect. I did it because I read silver has very good highs and definition, and copper has good lows.. u know what I mean I'm trying to have a piece of both worlds. This is my first time with cable audiophiles so I'm still not sure if it will make a difference in sound but theyre gunna look awsome so eather way ill be happy with them

you should try out SPC . Silver Plated Copper. this kind of cable gives you what you are looking for. its copper gives you the dynamic lows, yet also the silver brightens up the overall sound, mainly in the mids and highs.

 

with the copper cable and silver interconnect it should give you what you are looking for.

post #157 of 245
Thanks I ended up canceling that order because I realised I needed 5 feet of cable not 3 and I cant afford to spend 90 dollars on wire so I got Mogami ofc copper instead. By the way I want to recommend to everyone my Gaofei OFC rhodium plated RCA connectors which are amazing imo just as good if not better than Eichmann Silver Bullets I've borrowed from my father. It's a Chinese product but most of you know the Chinese take hifi seriously, there is no Chinese quality stereotype here. And they don't seem to inflate the hell out of their prices eather like American companies that's why I'm stressing this. I hate to see hard working people like myself empty theirs wallet on overpriced products. There 45 dollars a set of 4 on eBay and the seller is very trustworthy. here's the link http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=330896858332&index=6&nav=SEARCH&nid=72197115401
post #158 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitesymphony View Post

For RCAs, I like Blue Jeans Cable LC-1s. They're made with solderless Canare RCAP connectors and custom low-capacitance Belden wire for a very fair price.


The copper vs. silver debate tends to have a lot of confounding variables that make it seem like silver might naturally sound "brighter" than copper. But it's possible to construct one cable with silver and one with copper, and have them sound and measure completely identical. The wire material is just a small part of a cable's specifications and resultant sound quality; don't worry too much about it.

Ok, so does this means that silver cable and copper cable will not make any difference apart from the cosmetic coloring of the cabling only ?
post #159 of 245

I think there are a couple reasons silver cables sound better to some listeners, both are mental:

 

1) The (true) fact that silver has a lower resistance.  This idea promotes the idea of a conductor that is faster, more revealing (even if electrically it doesn't have this effect).  Not to mention, the small difference in resistance is quite minor compared to other inline resistances.  Not to mention, a 3 foot copper cable (properly terminated) will have lower resistance than a 3.5 foot silver cable of similar wire thickness yet you see this brightness impression being quite prominent regardless of length or awg of wire.  If it comes down to resistance, the big upgrade would be to buy cables as short as possible with solid locking connectors.

 

2) The more important thing in my opinion is the effect of human beings to associate visible material attributes to sound.  SIlver has a clean, bright look to it, copper is warm and pleasant in comparison.  Should it be so surprising that our brain is influenced by this?  Take two identical amplifiers one with a blue LED versus one with a red LED, I'd admit that I'd probably refer to the latter as warmer.

 

This is coming from an electrical engineer who loves to DIY cables, mostly cause I enjoy it and I like the looks.  I am not saying that good cables are not needed.  But I am qualifying that "good cables" means an appropriate type of cable terminated correctly.  This can be had for about $20.


Edited by Jam_Master_J - 6/26/13 at 7:54am
post #160 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post

you should try out SPC . Silver Plated Copper. this kind of cable gives you what you are looking for. its copper gives you the dynamic lows, yet also the silver brightens up the overall sound, mainly in the mids and highs.

 

with the copper cable and silver interconnect it should give you what you are looking for.

What exactly about the silver impedes the low end dynamics?  Does this mean that in a silver-plated copper the bass frequencies will propogate through the copper core while the mids and highs stick to the silver coating?


Edited by Jam_Master_J - 6/26/13 at 7:59am
post #161 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam_Master_J View Post

What exactly about the silver impedes the low end dynamics?  Does this mean that in a silver-plated copper the bass frequencies will propogate through the copper core while the mids and highs stick to the silver coating?

 

Nothing, it's a myth.

 

A good quality silver cable gives a deeper, tighter bass than a good quality copper. Copper might give a bigger, fuller bass but it's not better IMO.


Edited by nigeljames - 6/26/13 at 8:13am
post #162 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam_Master_J View Post

I think there are a couple reasons silver cables sound better to some listeners, both are mental:

1) The (true) fact that silver has a lower resistance.  This idea promotes the idea of a conductor that is faster, more revealing (even if electrically it doesn't have this effect).  Not to mention, the small difference in resistance is quite minor compared to other inline resistances.  Not to mention, a 3 foot copper cable (properly terminated) will have lower resistance than a 3.5 foot silver cable of similar wire thickness yet you see this brightness impression being quite prominent regardless of length or awg of wire.  If it comes down to resistance, the big upgrade would be to buy cables as short as possible with solid locking connectors.

2) The more important thing in my opinion is the effect of human beings to associate visible material attributes to sound.  SIlver has a clean, bright look to it, copper is warm and pleasant in comparison.  Should it be so surprising that our brain is influenced by this?  Take two identical amplifiers one with a blue LED versus one with a red LED, I'd admit that I'd probably refer to the latter as warmer.

This is coming from an electrical engineer who loves to DIY cables, mostly cause I enjoy it and I like the looks.  I am not saying that good cables are not needed.  But I am qualifying that "good cables" means an appropriate type of cable terminated correctly.  This can be had for about $20.

Dude your opinion is pretty out there. Spend some real money like a few hundred dollars getting good wire , good connectors and then make an opinion. Also go to the local audio stores and audition some cables. And lastly go to head-fi meets and audition the cables and enjoy the gear you will get to listen to.
On your first point , what cables did you use to come up with your findings? Also your point of shorter cables and locking connectors..... If that was the cure all everybody would be doing it. Still haven't found out why you need locking connectors? Just a choice. The longer the cable the more color. Some cables sound better than others and you may want the longer cable.

And your second point is halarious. You really sound like you know what you talking about. Like to share that one at the next local audio society meeting. ...... I don't post as much as i used to, but this post had me .........
post #163 of 245

My opinion is not valid because I don't have hundreds of dollars sunk into parts that, in my experience, make so significant difference to the sound?  I've got nothing against listening subjectively, I pick all my other parts based on sound not specs.

 

Yes I do legitimately do believe people are pulled in with a certain kind of placebo effect and that it could be associated with their perceptions of things that are more physical and less electrical.  I'd bet money that if you prepared two identical audio systems and put one in a bigger, industrial style enclosure and one in a very finely machined enclosure with visible smaller cables you would see words like "nimble", "delicate" and "fast" thrown at the little one more often and words like "full" and "anchored" on the large one.  The theoretical differences between cables are in a whole other order of magnitude below the influence of our own personal expectations, mood, visual ques.  I know we'd like to think we aren't influenced by these things but we are.

post #164 of 245

imo pure silver sounds the best. i think vocals male and female are crisp, soundstage is wider, mids and highs are crystal clear. pure silver some might feel is more of a aggrerssive sound vs copper or silver plated copper.....besides the pure silver the silver plated copper is pretty good also, gives you somewehat of both worlds the silver and copper. 

post #165 of 245
You have to spend money to make cables. or buy them. you really cant make a fair judgement being an arm chair quarter back. most noobs get caught up on the looks of the cables. that is not me or my peeps (quote name="Jam_Master_J" url="/t/292127/copper-vs-silver-cables/150#post_9562705"]My opinion is not valid because I don't have hundreds of dollars sunk into parts that, in my experience, make so significant difference to the sound?  I've got nothing against listening subjectively, I pick all my other parts based on sound not specs.

Yes I do legitimately do believe people are pulled in with a certain kind of placebo effect and that it could be associated with their perceptions of things that are more physical and less electrical.  I'd bet money that if you prepared two identical audio systems and put one in a bigger, industrial style enclosure and one in a very finely machined enclosure with visible smaller cables you would see words like "nimble", "delicate" and "fast" thrown at the little one more often and words like "full" and "anchored" on the large one.  The theoretical differences between cables are in a whole other order of magnitude below the influence of our own personal expectations, mood, visual ques.  I know we'd like to think we aren't influenced by these things but we are.
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