New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Copper vs silver cables - Page 2  

post #16 of 245
I can't believe how much people bring up that test. You'd think the skeptics would be able to realize that it was completely flawed.

I suppose it is ok for the test to be flawed as long as it says what you want it to say?
post #17 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
I'm afraid I don't know what "analytical" sounds like, and if by "harsh", you mean that they add distortion or accentuate the upper mids, that just plain isn't true. Yes, I use Radio Shack cables. They sound just like every other cable. The connectors on the Radio Shack gold cables suck, so I don't recommend them. But the standard cables are great.

See ya
Steve
No they dont sound like every other cable. They add an edginess to the sound that is unpleasant in my setup .... and very easy to hear. I hate the sound when these cables are in my system. I dont understand if you really cant hear very well, your system lacks resolution .... or you just have a closed your mind and refuse to listen and compare.

Anyway, I guess we wil have to agree to disagree. RS cables are inferior in my setup and they are sitting retired in a box.
post #18 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by philodox View Post
I can't believe how much people bring up that test. You'd think the skeptics would be able to realize that it was completely flawed.

I suppose it is ok for the test to be flawed as long as it says what you want it to say?
Well put!
post #19 of 245
I wouldn't worry too much about copper vs. silver. The construction of the cable will have more influence on it's sound than which of those materials it's made of.

For a starting setup, I don't think you can go wrong with Bluejeans. I used their audio cables in my earlier rigs and still use their video cables for my tv equipment. Good folks and a good quality product.
post #20 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
you really cant hear very well, your system lacks resolution
It always comes back to that. There must be something wrong with ME because I don't see any evidence that cables of reasonable quality sound different.

If you can say "it must be your ears or your equipment", I can say "Emperor's New Clothes".

See ya
Steve
post #21 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by philodox View Post
I can't believe how much people bring up that test. You'd think the skeptics would be able to realize that it was completely flawed.
Blind test. Audiophiles right here in this forum were asked to identify the high end silver cable. They picked Radio Shack. They couldn't tell a silver from a copper, a high end from a low end. It all fell into the range of random choice. There ya go.

See ya
Steve
post #22 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
Blind test. Audiophiles right here in this forum were asked to identify the high end silver cable. They picked Radio Shack. They couldn't tell a silver from a copper, a high end from a low end. It all fell into the range of random choice. There ya go.
Nobody who took the test had previous experience with any of the cables. That is what makes the test flawed. If you can't see that, I don't know what to say.

As an example.

Individual #1
Goes into the test with preconceptions that the Radio Shack cables will sound the worst, the silver cables will be bright and the copper cables will be warm.

If he then says that the Radio Shack cables are the silver cables, all this means is that he perceived the Radio Shack cables to be bright.

Individual #2
Swears by Radio Shack cables and thinks they will sound the best and expects the silver and copper cables to sound identical.

If he then says that the Copper Cables are the Radio Shack cables, all this means is that he liked them the best.

Now, if they had gone into the test all being familiar with all of the cables involved, we may have gotten something meaningful. Or possibly, if they were just asked to list the cables based on their various sonic merits.

Since this is not the case, all we have proved is that based on second hand knowledge it is difficult to tell audio components apart.

I could have told you that without a blind test.

See ya
Jay
post #23 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
It always comes back to that. There must be something wrong with ME because I don't see any evidence that cables of reasonable quality sound different.

If you can say "it must be your ears or your equipment", I can say "Emperor's New Clothes".

See ya
Steve
You dont seem to hear much of a difference with anything.

Like I said, , I guess we will have to agree to disagree. RS cables are inferior in my setup and they are sitting retired in a box.
post #24 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
You dont seem to hear much of a difference with anything.
That's not true. There are lots of things that truly do make a difference. The quality of recording, mixing and mastering. Speakers. Room acoustics. Frequency response... all of these make huge differences. The things that don't make a difference are high bitrates, fancy cables or jitter.

The important thing about achieving optimal sound quality is knowing what is important and what isn't. That's the sense of proportion lacking in people who listen to numbers on a sheet of paper, or listen to advertising sales pitch instead of listening with their ears and brains.

See ya
Steve
post #25 of 245
how about silver coated copper wires? do we get something in between silver sound and copper sound?
post #26 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjumper78 View Post
how about silver coated copper wires? do we get something in between silver sound and copper sound?
In theory yes? I have used them, and they do sound brighther that/a bit more detailed-sounding than plain copper wires, but I do not know if they are bright in general really. They seem to be a happy medium of sorts if you are looking for more detail but still the "warmth" of copper
post #27 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
That's not true. There are lots of things that truly do make a difference. The quality of recording, mixing and mastering. Speakers. Room acoustics. Frequency response... all of these make huge differences. The things that don't make a difference are high bitrates, fancy cables or jitter.

The important thing about achieving optimal sound quality is knowing what is important and what isn't. That's the sense of proportion lacking in people who listen to numbers on a sheet of paper, or listen to advertising sales pitch instead of listening with their ears and brains.

See ya
Steve

That seems to be the issue though .... do you really listen in an unbiased manner and how much have you actually compared various cable designs or cd players? We dont have any control over any aspect of the recording quality, and given this is a headphone site, how many are worried about speakers and room acoustics with headphones?

Just curious .... what power cables do you think I use? What IC's do you think I use? What digital cable do I use for my dacs? These are serious question so lets avoid snide remarks or avasive answers .... please just answer the questions. I know there are a lot of possibilities but give it a shot.
post #28 of 245
Personally, I think at test where the listener does not know a damn thing about anything is best Philadox. This way there should be no preconceived ideas or conclusions. My opinion with copper and silver and even gold or construction techniques is irrelevant as long as they are built to last. In the end, the best way is to buy a few pairs, listen to them and sell the others you don't like. Besides, I am a firm believer that the information is always present regardless of the cable, the difference in sound in just your perception. Your perception of that information CAN make cables sound different though. I am not talking about placebo at all either. I truly believe that the material and construction method used cannot alter the sound, just your perception of it! My gold plated silver/copper/gold alloy cables sound best to me but I am not suggesting that there is more or less info, bass weight, treble smoothness, or midrange purity, just that my body and mind work better alongside these materials.

When I am happy and healthy, silver and copper sound very similar to me. At a little stress, lack of sleep(my problem) and the silver is very tiring and often bright in my system. The alloy I am using tends to sound the same all of the time. This is why EE will often argue that there is no way the metal used can mechanically alter the sound, because they don't(IMHO)! It happens to sound different on a level that occurs in your physiology. The whole metaphysical thing! Nobel prize winning scientists(not EE's) believe in the metaphysical attributes of conductors so I feel OK about my ideas. Not to say that EE's ideas are not sound, just that they generally regurgitate theory accepted as fact and taught to them, not create theory to further science. However, if my and some of the top research minds' theories do not please you and you want a empirical approach, carbon is by far a better conductor over any of the previously mentioned.

Here are the resistivity values for a few [ρ (nΩ·m)]
-silicon dioxide(1300 °C) 0.004
-carbon, amorphous 0.35
-germanium 0.46
-carbon, diamond 2.7
-silver 15.9
-copper 17.1
-gold 22.1
-tungsten 52.8
-zinc 59
-brass 64
-nickel 69.3
-lithium 92.8
-iron 96.1
-platinum 105
-palladium 105.4
-tin (0 °C) 115
-solder 150

So, based on resistive numbers alone(I hate to do that), silver betters copper only by a little and it all becomes mute when you see the resistance in the solder used to hold them together. Keep in mind that non-metal semi-conductors must be doped to achieve good results. Find a way to join wires and not use solder and you will find that could mean more of an improvement. Also, this may show why high carbon cables are the best for performance but are not practical due to their very fragile and rigid nature. If you want the best bar none, heat up your new silicon dioxide cables to 1300 degrees since it is very resistive at room temp. I am thinking that the best results for getting the best from you circuit is to point to point wire it and then gold plate everything(especially the solder). Why gold plate and not silver? CORROSION IS VERY BAD FOR CONDUCTIVITY! I could be wrong but the information I read was from three dudes who won the Nobel science prize for work in semiconductors. However, I thought the resistivity and conductivity are similar but not the same... Maybe an EE can verify this before I preach this as the gospel according to Rodent.
post #29 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
We dont have any control over any aspect of the recording quality, and given this is a headphone site, how many are worried about speakers and room acoustics with headphones?
You may not have control of sloppy recording quality, but if you can recognize it when you hear it, you can avoid wasting money buying expensive wires or equipment to try to improve what can't be fixed.

As for speakers vs. headphones... The same rule of thumb holds true for headphones as for speakers... it's best to spend the bulk of your budget on the transducers, not the electronics. But that said, headphones are never going to give you as good of an experience as really good speakers. Cans are fine for casual listening or times or places when you just can't use speakers. But speakers are the only way to experience music the way it's intended to be heard. If you're really serious about great sound, you need speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
Just curious .... what power cables do you think I use? What IC's do you think I use?
To be honest, I really don't care. I'm sharing what I know for the benefit of newbies who need direction as to where they should best focus their attention. I'm trying to help them understand the basic concepts, so they can get a great sounding system without a lot of trial and error. You can feel free to do whatever you please. I was just replying to your claim that I don't think anything makes a difference. That clearly isn't true.

See ya
Steve
post #30 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
You may not have control of sloppy recording quality, but if you can recognize it when you hear it, you can avoid wasting money buying expensive wires or equipment to try to improve what can't be fixed.

As for speakers vs. headphones... The same rule of thumb holds true for headphones as for speakers... it's best to spend the bulk of your budget on the transducers, not the electronics. But that said, headphones are never going to give you as good of an experience as really good speakers. Cans are fine for casual listening or times or places when you just can't use speakers. But speakers are the only way to experience music the way it's intended to be heard. If you're really serious about great sound, you need speakers.



To be honest, I really don't care. I'm sharing what I know for the benefit of newbies who need direction as to where they should best focus their attention. I'm trying to help them understand the basic concepts, so they can get a great sounding system without a lot of trial and error. You can feel free to do whatever you please. I was just replying to your claim that I don't think anything makes a difference. That clearly isn't true.

See ya
Steve
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that on a HEADPHONE site...you are trying to give newbies direction...

"If you're really serious about great sound, you need speakers"
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
This thread is locked