Low gain, High gain usage guidelines - Page 5

The output of the amp is the same, but how you get there and what you pick up or loose along the way is not. I think this is where we disagree.

For an opamp based circuit, assuming that the only 2 variables are attenuator attenuation, and gain controlled by feedback:
There are differences between an opamp at unity gain with the volume control set to -30db and the same opamp setup to provide 20db of gain and the volume knob set -50db. The output voltages and power (if into a headphone load) are the same between the 2 circuits, but the distortions and bandwidths are not.

In a VERY grossly general term, the lower gain op-amp will outperform the higher gain one. I think this is in agreement with what you commented on car-stereo amps.
Gain is important only when you need more voltage than what the source puts out. Measure the actual voltage across a headphone in use. Most people do not really need more than what their source puts out.

Where is the fun in an amp with so much gain that you can only use the first 3 steps on a "standard" -60db 24-step stepper, or use a standard volume knob based on where the channels are first equal? IMHO, its MUCH better to use 6 steps somewhere in the middle; if the recording is too hot, you have TONS of room to turn the knob down. I have been held at the mercy of some amp on the first step with some recordings. If the source is a low-output type you STILL have plenty of room on the topside of the attenuator to get the level where you like it.

Maybe unity gain is not the final answer, but its surprising how little gain people really NEED for headphones.
I think you are throwing another variable in the mix by using different headphones. Grados are (in my expereince) not exceptionally "critical" of source/amp quality: they sound pretty good out of pretty much everything, although they do show improvements as the source/amp improves. Senn's on the other hand are exceptionally critical: if the source/amp is flawed, they WILL show it. I think they have slightly greater potential, but lord help your wallet in your quest for it

In the ipod example you are also ignoring the quality of the "whole signal path" in the ipod. I think this is something of a biased forum, but we all agree its pretty junky compared even to an average cmoy on a LOD.

I would take JUST the senn's and try them out on even a cmoy with volume and gain (feedback) control. If you match levels well, I think you will find them quite nice when driven from a good amp with low gain.

Yes, I agree with you. You have emphasized a very important point that people should pound into their minds: gain is only necessary if you need more voltage than the source puts out.

And yes, when I said it "doesn't really matter" lol... yeah, I know there will be differences in distortions. I was trying to oversimplify for the sake of argument

thats why I said "point being, you'd have more or less the same capability, same distortion characteristics, etc, thats assuming gain didn't matter", the point being that an iPod has a fairly limited output ability, it isn't a powerhouse of an amplifier, it wasn't to talk about its quality (or lack therof), it was a simple example, basically the point is, if gain didn't matter, if an ipod is a 5/10 for Grado SR-60's, it'd be a 5/10 for DT 990 600's, because if gain didn't matter, impedance wouldn't matter (and the fact that you're arguing how Grado's are easy to drive vs the DT 990's or w/e, is a testament to this not being truth)

as far as the drive the senns from a cmoy or something like that, level matching will accomplish the same thing as adjusting the gain, yeah you could argue noise floor a little, however in a well designed amp that shouldn't be much of a problem

Anyone know what type of implementation the Little Dot MKIII uses for it's gain setting? I would imagine it's the same in all LD amps.

I'm not sure about how this would affect SQ, but FallenAngel seems to know.

thanks

I don't really want to revive an old thread, but I've had this nagging question on my mind. Driving my HD650 out of my Fiio E10, should I stick to high or low gain? On high gain, I can reach max tolerable volume at 2.5/8. On low, it is around 5/8. Since both gain settings can bring out sufficient volume out of these 300 ohm cans, are there honestly any benefits to high gain?

As was said in a previous post, going higher up with the volume eliminates any possibility of channel imbalance that may occur at lower levels, i.e. below 3 on the e10.  While  this isn't one of the things that has been noted about the e10, it can't hurt to leave it on low gain, which really speaks to the e10's ability to drive higher impedance cans like the 650.

So, what about when I have a choice between -10dB, +4dB and "High gain" on my source (not amp)? Anything I should know about?