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If DAP is lound enough, why do we need an amp?

post #1 of 17
1/26/08 at 10:24am
Thread Starter 
This must be discussed before, but my search didn't return useful info, could someone point the right threads I should read? Thanks.
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post #2 of 17
1/26/08 at 10:29am
Because its not about sound pressure level, but sound quality.
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post #3 of 17
1/26/08 at 10:31am
I have limited experience with DAPs so forgive me if i'm wrong but...

If setup corrently a DAP should be taking in a digital source (line-level?) and outputing a line-level signal, how would you control the volume?
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post #4 of 17
1/26/08 at 10:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbmcaulay View Post
I have limited experience with DAPs so forgive me if i'm wrong but...

If setup corrently a DAP should be taking in a digital source (line-level?) and outputing a line-level signal, how would you control the volume?
Actually, I meant mp3 players. Thanks.
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post #5 of 17
1/26/08 at 10:39am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmathis View Post
Because its not about sound pressure level, but sound quality.
Does this mean that an amp can't improve sound if I use the source's headphone output as the input of an amp? Thx
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post #6 of 17
1/26/08 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by touchzen View Post
Does this mean that an amp can't improve sound if I use the source's headphone output as the input of an amp? Thx
I think that there would be improvements for sure, but it will never be as "clean" sounding as using a line-out.

YMMV.

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post #7 of 17
1/26/08 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by touchzen View Post
Does this mean that an amp can't improve sound if I use the source's headphone output as the input of an amp? Thx
Well. If you like the sound signature you get by double-amplifying the signal, then if might be an improvement to you. But most of us feed the external amplifier with a line level audio signal.

Hence get improved sound quality because the external amplifier are of higher quality than the source' built in amplifier.
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post #8 of 17
1/26/08 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbmcaulay View Post
I have limited experience with DAPs so forgive me if i'm wrong but...

If setup corrently a DAP should be taking in a digital source (line-level?) and outputing a line-level signal, how would you control the volume?
I think you're confusing DAP, digital audio player, with DAC, digital-to-analog converter. A DAP is something like an iPod or any other MP3 player. While a DAC converts the digital information from a digital source like a CD player or computer into an analog signal.
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post #9 of 17
1/26/08 at 1:05pm
Thread Starter 
It is more clear now, thank all for your kindly help.
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post #10 of 17
1/26/08 at 1:14pm
Maybe someone actually could explain WHY it sounds better with an amp than without one from headphone-out if the DAP it self don't have any problem driving the headphones to a good SPL. (someone that now the technical part of it) Explain easy I'm not very good at english and don't have any electrical skills
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post #11 of 17
1/26/08 at 1:37pm
In summary using a dedicated amp through the line out bypasses the DAP's internal headphone amp circuitry which is in most cases inferior to what is in an amp due to size limitations and cost of manufacturing.

This is also why amping through a line-out is much preferred to a headphone out.
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post #12 of 17
1/26/08 at 1:40pm
Some reasons why a higher quality (higher than the DAP's built in) amplifier improve sound quality.
* Higher quality and better matched components.
* More powerful power supply (ex. bigger capacitors).
* More...

Hence resulting in a more powerful amplifier, with power to drive the headphone transducer on all loads. But also allow a clean distortion free signal to come through to your ear.

Example:
Imagine you're driving a car at 100mph. Every car can do this on a flat surface or downhill, but few cars can do it in a steep uphill. Hence you need a bigger engine, even if you don't want to travel any faster.
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post #13 of 17
1/26/08 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmathis View Post
Some reasons why a higher quality (higher than the DAP's built in) amplifier improve sound quality.
* Higher quality and better matched components.
* More powerful power supply (ex. bigger capacitors).
* More...

Hence resulting in a more powerful amplifier, with power to drive the headphone transducer on all loads. But also allow a clean distortion free signal to come through to your ear.

I too, can voucher for what he just said.

I tried my Headsix hooked up to the dedicated line out (not the phones out) of my vintage MZ-R50 MiniDisc Walkman, and noticed a huge difference right away, a more powerful sound that is free of distortion caused by "doubling up" the DAP's own amp on top of the headphone amp. It even works great with my vintage 600-ohm Sennheiser HD420 headphones despite having to on some tracks having to crank up my Headsix to the 3:00 position to get ample sound from the HD420's (of course lower impedance HP's don't need to carnked up that high with the line out.
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post #14 of 17
1/26/08 at 6:59pm
If you have high impedance phones like HD600/650, please try line out (yes, not headphones out) to your phones and let your ears be the judge. The line out of my iRiver IHP120 betters almost all portable amps I've tried when using HD650. Just try it, it's free. The headphones out of the Iriver and iPod is absolutely crap, so you have to use line out to get that good sound. If you only have a headphone out on your DAP, I doubt an amp will improve the sound much if anything at all. Adding yet another amplifying stage might just lessen the quality. Just listen to music, and not tech-talk, and decide for yourself.

If you have low impedance phones you'll get a bass roll of and too low current supply. The capacitors on the line out of the DAP (I think there's always such) make togehter with the phones a high pass filter High-pass filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. In the Iriver (and iPod I think) there's a 47 uF capacitor. With 300 Ohm phones the cut off frequency is 11 Hz which is ok, and with 32 Ohm phones it's 211 Hz = no bass.
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post #15 of 17
1/26/08 at 8:14pm
If someone tried to explain what I asked earlier then I guess I was not clear enough. The question was why will the HEADPHONE OUT sound better with an amp, I'm not saying it doesn't, just want to now why. Everything said in this thread I know before
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