or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

IEM Warning - Page 3

post #31 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
No, you ears doesn't need to breathe cause you are getting 99.99% of all the oxygen needed from your lung. The only reason for air (not just oxygen) to get into the middle ear is so it can balance the air pressure b/w both side of ear drum. The reason for air to get to the ear canal cause it can remove excess moisture (excess moisture = bed for bacteria). In the case of excess moisture (such as using IEM), the canal produces more wax to entrap/suppress bacterial growth. This is why it is always good for IEM user to 'unplug' once in a while for fresh air, and clear you ear canal in regular interval.
I'm not saying they need to breathe, I'm just saying your ears get oxygen from you nose(and lungs) when the ears are plugged, and also another reason that earwax is increased is because of continuous high/loud noises.
post #32 of 67
Thread Starter 
certainly we need to take care. i have argued for years against anyone even with good arguments that iems are bad for hearing just because of the idea that you can use less volume but it is not a huge less amount and even then, we need to take care without just assuming.

my science may be off, but the amount of people i know who use iems and have tinnitus or such are much higher than those i know who just listen to headphones or speakers, but headphones listening is much more dangerous overall than speakers... as much as i love headphones, it is time to be careful, very careful.
post #33 of 67
I love IEMs , They are almost my favourite type of phone, isolation, light weight, and an intimate sound.
I don't fuss over db , but keep the levels at my own volume 'sweetspot' above or below this I don't enjoy the sound as much.
Recordings and music tend to have their own 'sweetspots' but these have to fall into my own.
If that makes any sense!

But then I am not an endurance listener , I am amazed at the hours some people listen for!
I guess it depends on personal circumstance , I sometimes have the radio on at piffling low levels, but don't really class it as listening.
With my audio system I prefer an hour of glory over many hours of murmur.

People must look after their hearing for sure, but it will eventually degrade with age, So best to enjoy it when it's on top form whilst exercising caution to keep that way as long as possible.
IEMs are great here because when you turn the music off, your are wearing hearing protection!

And for those people who are completely lost as too what is a safe level and worry about getting db meters etc,you need to reacquaint yourself with your ears!!
Just as with learning to listen for subtle differences in equipment , learn to understand what your ears are telling you with spl levels.
Often people who eat lots of salt sugar , fried foods etc lose perspective on flavours, same with hearing.
If you listen to audio electronics al day long , that ain't hearing!
Stop listening for a while,get used to quiet environments with soft sounds , use ear plugs whatever it takes to re-adjust.


Happy listening!


post #34 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by pez View Post
I'm not saying they need to breathe, I'm just saying your ears get oxygen from you nose(and lungs) when the ears are plugged, and also another reason that earwax is increased is because of continuous high/loud noises.
I think I get what you mean. BTW, since nose is connected to throat, air also get in that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
certainly we need to take care. i have argued for years against anyone even with good arguments that iems are bad for hearing just because of the idea that you can use less volume but it is not a huge less amount and even then, we need to take care without just assuming.

my science may be off, but the amount of people i know who use iems and have tinnitus or such are much higher than those i know who just listen to headphones or speakers, but headphones listening is much more dangerous overall than speakers... as much as i love headphones, it is time to be careful, very careful.
Just a little lowering in volume can be significant (in term of cumulative noise dosage), not to mention Febs' link (of research) points to a 11dB different b/w IEM user and nonuser. If you use Etymotic website as a reference (NIOSH standard), than an IEM user can listen to music on 78dB for a bit more than 8hrs per day without hearing damage, but an non-IEM-user (on 89dB) can only listen to music ~3.5hrs per day. For those who did listen to music in a noisy environment for long hour, using IEM can actually save their hearing.

Another very simple yet significant factor to consider is, IEM user tend to be in a noisy environment more often than full sized cans or speaker user (quite obviously). You simply can not rule out the effect of environmental noise to the IEM user when (s)he is not listening to any music.

If you have to walk through in a street of high drive-by-shooting rate daily than the chances of you getting kill is obviously going to be higher than normal. If you think wearing a body armor means nobody will shoot you than you are wrong. It only means the chance of you getting kill is going to be lower than the rest of the (not armored) people who are walking with you, but it is still above normal. That is statistic.
post #35 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
my science may be off, but the amount of people i know who use iems and have tinnitus or such are much higher than those i know who just listen to headphones or speakers, but headphones listening is much more dangerous overall than speakers... as much as i love headphones, it is time to be careful, very careful.
Well, your science may likely be off. You're equating the fact that people who have tinnitus listen to IEMs, but you're forgetting that fact that the people who own IEMs are music junkies, and you're also completely glossing over the fact that I raised in my first response to you which was that hearing damage is done LONG before any evidence of it becomes known to you. In other words, us music junkies went out to concerts when we were teens and college students and bathed in the extreme volumes night after night without hearing protection (and then likely wised up as we got older and used ear plugs - I know I did!) But NOW, when I, at least, am in my 30s, I'm noticing tinnitus. Is the tinnitus from my IEMs that I keep at a decent, low level, or is from years and years of going to concerts and listening to car stereos at ear bleeding levels?

Try not to fall victim to post hoc ergo propter hoc, which is Latin for "after this, therefore because of this" - in other words, you're blaming some recent event on the most recent possible cause when there are perfectly logical reasons (and scientific reasons, in this case) that are much further in the past. Time and age take their toll on us, I'm afraid to say, and even people who have taken great care of their ears can and will get tinnitus - sometimes it's just genetic. Sometimes it's a disease or a disorder - my wife has had tinnitus because of a granuloma in her inner ear. My dad had a virus of some sort that killed off the cilia in his cochlea in his right ear and now he's deaf in that ear. Weird things happen - don't always blame technology. Sometimes it's because we as people were stupid, sometimes it's just an unfortunately natural occurrence. If you're worried, go see an ear doctor - there might be something going on that you can fix now.
post #36 of 67
Thread Starter 
ety website: marketing! just as sony supplied plenty of evidence that their compression was the best, ety may be feeding a market that hasn't full research. iems have not been on mass market for very long: maybe only 12 years or so and for an limited audience only: how do we know? can we be staunchy about latin terms etc?

at the least, headphone listening is way more damaging than speaker or usual listening as it is closer to the ear: i am not condeming but warning. we have to be careful. there was a thread earlier this week that said a usual person had 1/5 chance to have tinnitus and offhand, that headfi members were 4/5... thas shows you that even as a joke, we are subject to way worse listening techniques whilst saying we are fine. by the way, do not use these words against me as i ahve been to two drinking parties.

EDIT: still quite drunk!
most users of earphones will not use earphones as long as we do. they will use them for much less time and make fewer excuses. we do use iems as a godsend for basically our weak ears. but they are closer to the centre of our hearing mechanisms. be safety!
post #37 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
at the least, headphone listening is way more damaging than speaker or usual listening as it is closer to the ear:
Again, this is wrong. What is damaging to the ear is sound pressure. Whether you listen to your speakers from 8 feet away at 110 dB, and listen to IEMS from 8 millimeters away at 110 dB, the sound pressure that reaches your ear is the same. I have never seen any competent literature indicating that an IEM can cause more damage than another sound source at equivalent volume (i.e., sound pressure) levels.

Moreover, as the link that I provided previously confirms, the available literature suggests that isolating IEMs are actually safer than other sound sources because they reduce ambient noise, thereby allowing you to listen to music at a lower SPL.

As we've discussed, that is not to say that IEMs cannot damage hearing. As with any other sound source, they certainly can damage your hearing if you listen at sufficiently high levels for sufficient lengths of time. However, there is no basis to conclude that they damage your hearing more than other sound source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
ety website: marketing! just as sony supplied plenty of evidence that their compression was the best, ety may be feeding a market that hasn't full research. iems have not been on mass market for very long: maybe only 12 years or so and for an limited audience only: how do we know? can we be staunchy about latin terms etc?
While I agree in principle that we should always treat manufacturer's claims with skepticism, bear in mind that Etymotic has been in the hearing aid business for quite a while, which shares a great deal of technology with the IEM business.
post #38 of 67
the simple thing, as said, is the dB level the ear hearing membranes recieve, whether it be a pneumatic drill or earphones/headphones etc

those bad listening techniques come from dB at too higher level, not iems/cans//speakers/(enviroment) etc, of course many people who love music do listen to it loud in headphones
post #39 of 67
As I've said in other threads, the use of IEMs has actually SAVED what's remaining of my hearing. The isolation blocked out the noise from the NYC subway (which is loud enough to damage one's hearing even without headphones turned up to compete with the noise). I was actually able to listen to music at fairly low volume levels while on the train thanks to this isolation.

IEMs are good if you're wise enough to turn them down. Future Sonics IEMs are particularly good in that you get better than usual bass response at lower volumes, so you don't feel an urge to crank up the music to get that butt-kicking thump. AND the highs aren't as fatiguing as most brands as well, which helps even further.

Used responsibly, IEMs are far better for your hearing than other headphones.
post #40 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
ety website: marketing! just as sony supplied plenty of evidence that their compression was the best, ety may be feeding a market that hasn't full research. iems have not been on mass market for very long: maybe only 12 years or so and for an limited audience only: how do we know? can we be staunchy about latin terms etc?
There's plenty of research into hearing damage. It's very well understood how and why hearing damage occurs. It's the very reason why people are so concerned about children listening to music at high volumes - they won't know the damage they do now, but they will in 20 years. Hearing damage is slow and cumulative. I don't understand why you keep overlooking this. Hearing damage that occurs overnight is generally VERY drastic and due to EXTREME volume - jet engines, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
at the least, headphone listening is way more damaging than speaker or usual listening as it is closer to the ear: i am not condeming but warning. we have to be careful. there was a thread earlier this week that said a usual person had 1/5 chance to have tinnitus and offhand, that headfi members were 4/5... thas shows you that even as a joke, we are subject to way worse listening techniques whilst saying we are fine.
And I'll say it again. This is a website of music junkies who probably spent a lot of time not taking care of their ears before coming to their senses. We have an unusual microcosm here - we are not the normal, everyday common-people that are referenced in these polls. WE are likely the 1 in 5. The tinnitus many of us suffer today is not due to IEMs we listen to on a daily basis but due to the concerts and very loud car stereos and headphones we listened to for hours on end when we were dumb teenagers 15-20 or more years ago. It's THAT listening that is taking its toll now.
One of the problems is the damage isn’t immediately noticeable. It's only when we get cumulative damage over long periods of time that we begin to notice hearing loss.

How long does it take to develop to this stage? Williams says if you took a group of people and exposed them to the maximum acceptable noise exposure – that is, 85 decibels for eight hours a day, five days a week, after 10 years , six percent of them will have noticeable hearing loss. (So the supposed ‘safe’ levels are not 100 per cent safe at all). After twenty years at the same exposure, about 20 per cent will have hearing loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
most users of earphones will not use earphones as long as we do. they will use them for much less time and make fewer excuses.
I have seen exactly the opposite. The people who are really into music and sound quality are not listening as intensely as those who don't really care. Most people just plug in whatever to drown out the real world - they're not paying attention to what's going on in their ears, they just know they don't want to hear what's going on around them. And they typically do so at pretty loud volumes. We're not going to be the ones going deaf - we're the ones taking care of our hearing by wearing good earphones that help us hear better and cut out background sound so we can focus at lower volumes.
post #41 of 67
Good thread. My takeaway is simple: everything in moderation. Don't play IEM's too loud!
post #42 of 67
Is there a way to examine how hard my music is playing? I don't have a clue and I always listen to my music at the maximum level. This is classical music. The maximum level of my brothers hip hop on my player seems so many more times louder.

1) How can I ensure that I get 85 dB or less in my ears? I'm listening to an iPod.

2) Sometimes on my bicycle I hear very little music due to the weather. In case I could put the volume higher so that I listen to the music on a level that feels 'normal', will this be more damaging?

I think I will undergo a hearing test as soon as possible. This sounds very worrying and to me it has always been something to worry about 'later'.
post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeTinux View Post
Is there a way to examine how hard my music is playing? I don't have a clue and I always listen to my music at the maximum level. This is classical music. The maximum level of my brothers hip hop on my player seems so many more times louder.

1) How can I ensure that I get 85 dB or less in my ears? I'm listening to an iPod.

2) Sometimes on my bicycle I hear very little music due to the weather. In case I could put the volume higher so that I listen to the music on a level that feels 'normal', will this be more damaging?

I think I will undergo a hearing test as soon as possible. This sounds very worrying and to me it has always been something to worry about 'later'.
max vol is usually too loud, do other people think it is?

tracks in mp3s etc can be volumed levelled differently

2) yep, turning it up will be more damaging, cause your then competing
post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al4x View Post
max vol is usually too loud, do other people think it is?
No, not really.

Quote:
2) yep, turning it up will be more damaging, cause your then competing
So, using earphones will be safer then, just like the study by Fligor and Ives (above) tells us.
post #45 of 67
if you mean some sort of isolating iems then you can listen to them lower, but on a bike? a bit risky!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav: