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Beyerdynamic DT-770 New Cable Mod (Pics) - Page 2

post #16 of 33
As for merging the two wires like a Y, perhaps some shrink wrap or you could braid the wire.
post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally posted by Ebonyks
I was thinking of doing something simliar with the beyerdynamic DT-931's, of which greatly benefit from a better cable (Fills in the bass, and grinds the edge off of the highs) Perhaps filling the terminal of where the cable enters the 'phones with glue would make it look better.

And 100 bucks? You gotta be kidding. It costs 20-30 to make it.
There is also shipping and 1-2 hours of someones time to do the job. It's not just cose of materials.
post #18 of 33
Thread Starter 
Morsel,

Thank you for the feedback. This is still something I'm just considering and am very interested in doing, but I do realize there are lots of little details that need to be worked out first if this is to be anything more than a once in a while type of thing.

I've been trying to figure out a good solution for the "Y" connector when not using a dual-mono config. I've seen some cable caps that split into two that might work. I could run the full cable into that, split the pairs, jacket them, then seal the whole assembly. I've only seen the ends on pre-made commercial interconnects and for fairly thick speaker cable. I'll look around and see what I can come up with.

I'm also looking into a better strain relief solution coming out of the earpieces themselves. Ideally I'd like something a bit more robust.

I was already thinking one way the mod would be offered would be to run a single cable to one earpiece and then go up and over to the other earpiece, the way the factory config is, but it's personal preference at that point on how someone would want the mods done.

-Mike
post #19 of 33
Thread Starter 
Scott,

I'm sure we can do something with the 280's. The thinner cable would probably work better physically, since there's less room in the earpieces Next time I see you I'll take a look at them and see what I can come up with.

-Mike
post #20 of 33
Thread Starter 
Was ist los,

That's a good suggestion. The problem with the cable I used above is that it's too thick to be braided without really taking away the flexibility. I'll see how the thinner cable is, that might solve it and look nice as well.

There are ultra-flexible heatshrink options that might work, too. They're more like a rubber skin, which might hold the cables without too much restriction of movement. I also haven't played around with Techflex yet. I'll order some if I can get it in reasonable lengths to test and see how well it works.

-Mike
post #21 of 33
Thread Starter 
Ebonyks,

Maybe $100 isn't reasonable to you if you were doing the work yourself. Looking at the total cost of not only the parts, but the time, it doesn't seem out of line to me, which is why I'm asking. I look at other "upgraded" replacement cables which don't come with any custom work, and they start in the $100-$125 range + shipping.

The raw parts cost including what it would cost me for shipping is around $30 for a dual cable, single stereo plug, 10ft. set, exactly as built in the pictures. I'll take a guess and say that a more robust strain relief solution would add $1.00-$2.00 per set. Add to that the cost of consumables... not very much per set, but offering something like this in a semi-commercial manner means more consumables, more iron tips, etc. The cost of fully-insured Priority Mail with signature confirmation is $11.75 assuming a 2lb package. I haven't looked into cost of consumables for packaging materials yet, but those have to be accounted for as well. For the sake of discussion, I'll make an educated guess and assume an appropriate box is around $1.25 and padding is $0.75 per package. One nice thing about Priority Mail is that the Post Office supplies tape and labels. I'm not sure they .

That puts total cost for materials and shipping at around $45-$50.

Judging by what the above mod took for time, and knowing how anal I am about double checking everything I do and making sure everything is mechanically and aesthetically as good as I can make it, I'll spend anywhere from 1-1/2 to 2 hours per upgrade, including the build, testing, packing and shipping. That doesn't include the time I'll probably end up spending talking back and forth with people answering questions, discussing options, etc.

On average, it will work out to less than $25/hr for my time, which is VERY inexpensive for custom work of any type. It's cheaper than any repair shop I've seen, and honestly wouldn't even be worth it for me in comparison to my day job or the IT related consulting work that I do, aside from the fact that I love doing this stuff.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I got the impression from your post that you felt the price I quoted is unjustified and that I wasn't being up-front about the cost of the parts. I wanted to explain how I came to that number and that I'm not in any way trying to hide the actual costs of any part of this from anyone who might ask.

-Mike
post #22 of 33
I'm not saying that it's unjustified, i'm just saying that it's expensive. Now, it's a given that it takes a bit of work to do, but if you're experenced at soldering, it will take no longer than 10 minutes to do the whole set, maybe an extra 5 to heatshrink it all. I've done work like this myself, so i understand where you're comming from

Lets say someone is ordering from markertek

L-4E6S costs .34 cents a foot.
The plug costs 1.69 for the switchcraft plug
Silver solder can be bought from mouser for under a dollar, for enough to do 10 jobs
Heatshrink costs under 2 dollars for 4 feet.
Assuming shipping costs are 10 dollars, means that it's under 20 dollars total to construct a cable, ingoring the concept of buying in bulk and saving on shipping costs.

Now, i just use standard USPS shipping, which under 5 dollars per package. Your estimate seems unusally high for shipping.

Regardless of the total costs, in my humble opinion, that cable certaintly does not warrant the 100 dollar cost assoiated with it, when your average joe can make it for about a quarter of the cost.

Now, markup is going to occur, and is espeically common in the field of cables, the manufactures have the advantage of it being much more expensive for your average joe to make a cable. An extra cable costs 25 dollars, which is required to make a cable for the 'phones, thus, efficetively doubling the costs of construction.

Hey, it's your busniess to run, not mine, although i think mall-fi would be a better place to discuss your items.

The words "DIY" don't excuse a company from that rule, dontchaknow?
post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally posted by Ebonyks


Now, i just use standard USPS shipping, which under 5 dollars per package. Your estimate seems unusally high for shipping.

I dunno if I would trust USPS/UPS/FedEx with an expenive set of cans without insurance. But to each their own.
post #24 of 33
$100 for a custom cable installed, tested and delivered is extremely fair. If anything it would seem inexpensive.

If you don’t think so make it yourself.

It’d take more than 15 minutes to cut, trim and prep the wires properly. If you’re going to rotate the ear cups, drill new holes and invert the labels. Heck shipping material, insurance, time and gas to mail them. Your actually working cheap.

It’s a labor of love not a get rich scheme.

Congratulations on a great idea nicely executed.

Mitch
post #25 of 33
What makes you think i haven't done it myself?

Really, to me, it's expensive, nothing is going to change that, but hey, if you guys want to, that's your choice, and i'm not going to stand in your way
post #26 of 33
10-15 minutes sounds too short for this kind of work. Soldering may not take much time but prepping the cable - cutting to length, removing insulation, threading through heatshrink / strain relief, carefully removing bales, not to mention cleanup before and after, will certainly take longer than that. Even if you consider that one can do some of these things in parallel - not all because you don't have all the cans in advance - you still might consider how long it takes if a single person would have to do it himself/herself (buy the cable & pay shipping costs and prep only a single pair), plus risk of damage to headphones when you're doing it the first time - it would take considerably longer. If the "manufacturer" manages to cut the time down by doing it in parallel, he doesn't necessarily have to pass all that savings to the customer. After all, it does have to work out to a reasonable per hour sum. In absolute terms though US$100 is a fair chunk of money, to be sure. Everything considered I would say it's a bit on the high side overall, unless custom services such as XLR plug are provided on request for the same price. It's very tough to put an exact value on this (and I know being in the similar situation).
post #27 of 33
Replying to AOS,

$100 is definatly a large chunk, especially for a $145 USD Headphone.
post #28 of 33
Thread Starter 
Ebonyks,

I totally respect your opinion, but you don't have an accurate assessment of the costs involved. For example, the Neutrik plug I'm using is almost $4.00. You can view it yourself at Mouser: http://www.mouser.com//index.cfm?han...oductid=286549

To make the cable above (10ft, dual cable), it takes approximately 21 ft. of the cable. Ordering it from Markertek the price, including their service charge is $12.09 + shipping.

The cable takes three sizes of heatshrink, none of which were under $2.00 per piece, especially the larger sizes.

The actual complete cost of everything above is higher than you are calculating. I don't see that there would be enough demand for this to justify an order for more than 10 sets at a time, and in reality it's probably more like 5. If I were looking at going into business offering custom modifications, then yes, I'd get a reseller's certificate, buy wholesale in bulk, and the parts cost would drop.

The shipping price quoted was directly from the USPS site, for a 2lb package with $225 insurance (covers replacing the headphones, the cable parts and shipping costs for all) and signature confirmation. I prefer Priority Mail to standard 1st class because there is less time in transit and I've had a good track record using it for many items.

I've got 20+ years of soldering experience, so I do know what's involved. I've been into DIY for a pretty good amount of time. The actual soldering of the joints is a small portion of the total time involved in the project.

Don't even get me started on the absurdity of markup in the cable business. It's a huge pet peeve of mine.

As for your "mall-fi" reference... I'm not here soliciting business, asking anyone to buy something, or making any sort of sales pitch. If you read the thread, it was about a mod I did for my own personal use... without commercial intent. I didn't like the factory cable and decided to replace it.

Since it was posted, I've received comments here in the thread and questions via PM and e-mail asking if I would ever offer to do this as a service, or suggesting that I should. I started thinking about what it would take. Part of that is asking opinions to see if anyone's interested, has any ideas/critiques, and if the project is worth it... both for me, and for anyone who may be interested in it.

Your opinion happens to be that it isn't worth it. I respect that, I'm glad to hear an honest opinion, and I hope to hear others' opinons if they are so inclined. If the general response is, "That's out of line and not worth it," the decision is pretty simple.

That said, it's probably more suitable to discuss the technical aspects here and ways it could be made better, and ask the "is there any interest in this as a product/service?" question over in the Headphones forum, but I would also value the opinon of those DIYers on here who do offer to build and mod for others.

-Mike
post #29 of 33
Ah, right, i did mess up the length number. I wrongly assumed that you were you were splitting the cable, and i obliviously didn't look closely at that picture, my fault

As for the plug, what's really the point? I acually do own that plug, and i just don't see the point on paying extra for it. After all, it's not as if silver plate acually does anything other than have cool effect.

And besides, there are cable companies with low-markups. Just look at something like bogdan audio, of which i would have difficultly constructing a simlar product at the given cost.

Even if my estimates are off, and the entire project costs 40 dollars, that's still a 100% mark-up, which, i probably could do in under an hour if i had the soldering experence that you do

In the end, it's all moot though. I just won't buy it, and we'll both be happy.

And by posting prices, you're solicting busniess, no way around it
post #30 of 33
Thread Starter 
Ebonyks,

Fair enough, though I do disagree on the point of solicitation. Again, our opinions are our own, and we're both welcome to them. That's why this is a discussion forum.

My opinion is that if I were soliciting, I would say, "Hey, I do this thing and it's $X price. Will you buy one?" vs. "Hey, I'm thinking of doing this thing, and thinking I might charge $X if I were to do it... I respect everyone's opinion, so do you all think it's reasonable and I could potentially sell it, or am I being foolish to think it might be worth offering?" There's a definite difference there. If it looks like it makes sense to do, I'll put together a Web site, post or pay for advertising in the appropriate forums, and solicit for business. At this point, it's still just conjecture.

Thanks for your thoughts on the whole thing, though, I do appreciate you honestly expressing your opinion.

-Mike
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