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Orgy of Capacitors: The Cap Thread - Page 36

post #526 of 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimkasta View Post
 

In that case you really need to try the K73-16 :)


Oh, I plan to, thanks.  Based on my good experience with Amtrans poly caps, I'm also going to try their mylar cap.  Of course, they are both on a long list of things to do:-)

 

Speaking of projects, I do have a pair of the Jupiter HT caps.  I haven't listened to them yet because they are part of an unfinished project. 

 

To answer the question about their outside case, it appears to be cardboard infused with something, perhaps wax.  What is interesting is that the end caps appear to be epoxy where I was expecting wax.  Epoxy might be an interesting potting material for uncasing and potting an oil cap.  I would think that the epoxy would generate much less temperature in the oil and should act as a good seal.  I've seen this approach on the Rike S cap which seems to work pretty well.

 

Jac

post #527 of 531

Just for info., here is one of the K75-11's pealed .. these cap's just have a thin plastic wrap (the pale turquoise bits to the left of the bottom picture) over the inner foil/film innards .. the same green ceramic like end seals (very hard to break) - not a lot of work to strip one of these!

Haven't done the next step on these cap's yet as I just got some, but will report when I do.

post #528 of 531

Give the K73-17 a try as well. I was surprised to find that in my amp these actually are even better than the K73-16. The high end is just a bit more defined and the low end has more body. For input caps, these are the ones that tamed my "wanderlust" through capacitor-land.

 

Now I am repeating the same with electolytics.

 

I had some pos Jakson or some such in the psu. Replaced that with Panasonic FC and wow, night and day. But as you all know, us audiophools can just enjoy a good thing. I thought that just a bit more warmth could be had with some Silmic II.

 

I really hate breaking in capacitors and for the life of me I dont know why I decided to just put these Silmics in there without first breaking them in. 2 days of misery. So much sparkle is gone and especially the decay of delicate sounds but the mids are rich like butter pecan caramel ice cream. Voices are to die for. Everything else is to kill myself for. So I bypassed the Silmic with a K73-17 (because I have a whole bag of em now :) and it is much better. But these are not staying. Next up are the Nichicon KZ and Cerafine and if those don't float my boat, a Mundorf Mlytic AG. If that still isnt the answer I will have wasted 40 bucks and go back to the panasonic FC.

 

I am really amazed at how important the psu is to the overall sound of the amp. The electrolytics have as great an influence as the input caps, maybe even more. 

 

So this rambling brings me to a question. What electolytics are you running in your amps and psu and are they bypassed or not? Have you tried different caps and what effects did you find?

 

:edit:

bypassing the Silmic II with the 2.2uf K73-17 and then a 0.01uf 1837 has become something special, almost magical. The clouds have parted revealing amazing dynamics and crystaline highs, clean and deep bass with this lush mid that makes you feel the breath of the singers. Much, much fuller than the Panasonic FC by itself. However, the bypasses work from the top down and I feel they go to a ceirtain frequency and then drop off in the higher mid range.

 

This got me thinking and please correct me if I am wrong. I am not an electrical engineer, nor do I play one on TV.

 

With input caps, size depends on the input impedance of your amp and this dictates how much extension down you have. For a full 20hz -20khz my amp requires about 4.3 uf capacitor as my amp is 20k impedance.

It is my uneducated theory that in this case the electrical signals behave much like the audio waves in air itself. The high frequency signals can get "lost" in a big room (capacitor) while the bass is still loud and clear. This is why we bypass with small (ie 0.01uf) caps that pretty much only let those high frequencies through.

 

PSU capacitors don't just power the amp, they are the very electrons that the music is made of. From my brief experimenting it seems that the bypasses on the electrolytics should be much larger than what one generally considers as a bypass.

If the top end is closed up and there is not enough detail, perhaps it is because the electrolytic cannot feed a stream of 14-20khz.

So whereas the input capacitor is dealing with reference voltage the psu needs to move the cones of a speaker. So I ordered a few 22uf K73-16 to test this theory. These will have enough capacitance to make a bigger difference vs the 2.2uf that is already installed. My theory is that if 2.2uf brought clarity from 20 - 12khz (guessing) then maybe a 22uf will bring clarity from 20 -1khz (just guessing). I actually don't even know how to measure this but this is just my hypothesis that I will not be able to prove, except through subjective opinion.

 

Silmic II is supposed to be extremely low ESR, even better than Panasonic FC http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=490633

so this cannot be the final word in what I am hearing.

 

Is this worth pursuing or am I way off?


Edited by pelopidas - 7/17/14 at 10:51pm
post #529 of 531

We usually think of it the other way around.

Electrons are not "pulled" by the circuit.

They are allowed to flow through it (least resistance path etc). If the psu does not have the ability to provide the speed that frequencies need, we have rolled of highs, or fluffy bass, or whatever.

A very good example in this is the Gainclone. The usual schematic gives virtually non-existent bass. Add to it some nice Panasonic 10.000uF electrolytics, and you get a very nice boost.

Or add some Sikorels and it will blow your mind :)

 

Input caps are a different thing. An ideal load would have infinite input impedance, and the capacitor would not stop any frequencies (perhaps only some because of its dissipation factor, dielectric loses etc).

In real world though, input caps form a first order highpass filter with the finite input impedance of the next stage, blocking some bass.

 

My current choice for 22K amps is 10uF and they have a significantly deeper bass in my system in comparison to 4.7uF

 

Unfortunately no K73-17 caps at 10uF... I might try them on my phono though...


Edited by dimkasta - 7/18/14 at 1:17am
post #530 of 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelopidas View Post
Next up are the Nichicon KZ and Cerafine and if those don't float my boat, a Mundorf Mlytic AG.

 

I have used the Mundorf Mlytic AG in the power supply of the MyRef Fremen Edition.  In comparison to the Panasonic FC, they make an audible improvement, especially in the bass.  Apparently, the improved sound quality comes in part from low ESR as the Mundorfs are significantly lower than many.  Worth it in the case of the MyRef, but definitely pricey.

 

I haven't used bypass caps on the power supply.  There is an alternative.  In my, as yet unfinished, Aleph J amp, I am using 10 Nichicon FW (3300 uF) in parallel for each rail.  By paralleling electrolytics of smaller value, both ESR and ESL are significantly reduced, to the point that the 33,000 uF combined capacitor has an ESR about the same as the Mundorf.  The price of the parallel caps are about 1/2 the cost of the Mundorf of the same size.

 

Have fun exploring.

post #531 of 531

Compared to Panasonic FC I tend to prefer the new line the FRs

 

They have a better temperature rating and lower ESR

 

I haven t used them in a main psu filter though...

 

In my shigaclone I currently use Sikorels at 10000uF and results were phenomenal...

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