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Orgy of Capacitors: The Cap Thread - Page 30

post #436 of 655

Its a slippery slope! 

 

Poor speakers.

 


Edited by JamieMcC - 3/3/14 at 9:13am
post #437 of 655

anyone here having tried the WIMA DC-LINK capacitors?

 

made to replace electrolyte capacitors f.e. in power supplies and other applications, MKP foil capacitors, available up to 4920µF.

 

this one f.e. is specified as follows:

 

DC-LINK MKP 6

- 900 µF,

- 900 VDC,

- 85/86 x 210 mm,

- ±10 %,

- 60 A,

- 1,5 mOhm

- Low ESR

 

Price is about 70 Euros.

post #438 of 655

Crack Cap rolling update

 

Cascade bypass of JFX 100uf Premium film audio coupling capacitors

 

Bypassed with

 

Russian K75-10 Hybrid Paper and Polyethylene Terephthalate in Oil (Mylar)

 

Bypassed with

 

Russian Teflon K72P6 Teflon

 

Beyer T1 and TS 5998 used for listening

 

I find myself enjoying the pairing of these capacitors they sound much better than the odd look they have shoehorned into the enclosure and held together with cable ties might suggest.

 

It has taken over 200hrs for the combination to settle down and a more coherent and refined sound to emerge.

 

With the Crack I find the K75-10 really very musical, fluid and engaging, PRaT is good its has a slightly dark flavour at lower volumes.  John L mentions  “jest and pop” in the presentation in his capacitor review ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/284863/orgy-of-capacitors-the-cap-thread) this comes through strongly and is very much akin to listening to vinyl on my Rega Planner 3, Just instant tow tapping head nodding enjoyment. Its a very engaging sound. 

 

Here’s the thing with the K75-10 I find it very musical the downside is the roll off. The top end has lost a lot of its crispness, gone is the metallic ting on triangles and cymbals which have now turned to softer schings instead of the crisp detailed ting, the bass is also a little loose and bloomy.

 

So I tried adding a K72P6 Teflon bypass to the K75-10 things started to improve while still keeping much of the K75-10 character.  With over 200hrs burn in the K72P6 Teflon influence on the top end has settled down and it makes for a much more coherent and refined sound, which the K75-10 lacked on its own.

 

Details and resolution are vastly improved while still keeping some of the zest and pop which I found engaging.

 

The aspect I have found most pleasing with this combination is the vocal presentation, both male and female voices come across beautifully with nice tone and texture and enough detail in the resolution to pick up the little nuances in word formation and expression.

 

The film and Teflon bypass capacitor combinations are throwing up some surprises and these Russian ex-military capacitors I have been experimenting with cost about the same as a cup of coffee each.

 

This is a combination that I could happily listen to for a long time.

 

pics

 

 

post #439 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post
 

Are you going to make your Crack have 'blue butt cheeks' :tongue: I love that beast he made lol.


 uh oh low hanging fruit warning, blue to boot!

 

   

post #440 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by lehmanhill View Post
 

I have had the chance to play with the Rike S-Caps in both a 1 uF, DC blocking cap and a 6.8 uF tweeter crossover cap.  Frankly, they are really good, one the best caps I have auditioned, but also not at all what I expected from a PIO.  I'm a little hopeful that Jon L will be interested enough to try them.  It would be great to have a review from such a grand database as Jon's.

 

I say that they are unexpected.  Most PIO's (at least in my experience) have a lush, even colored mid-range and often lack a little detail and sparkle on top.  Now I haven't tried any of the really good and expensive caps, so my comparisons are to lesser, but still good caps.  Acting as a DC blocking cap at the input of my power amp, the Rike S-cap excels at clarity and detail.  I think they are better for clarity than the Audyn True Copper and a Mundorf ZN that I have tried.  They stand out as clearly better than a Jantzen Superior Z or an Obbligato Premium Gold.  The later caps seem veiled and thin sounding by comparison, at least in my system.

 

Another interesting difference is that the Rike S-Cap displays more dynamic range than other caps.  You seem to hear more of the quiet details, but they remain quiet, while the loud sections of music seem louder somehow.  The combination of clarity, detail, and dynamic range result in an excellent sound stage with width, depth, and focus.

 

As for balance, the bass and mid-range are there in appropriate proportion, but perhaps a bit recessed from the higher frequencies.  Also, the mid-range seems clean and clear, but not warm or lush as you might find in a K75-10 or a Jupiter HT.  In fact, I would say that the Rike has a character similar to the K71-4 Russian Polystyrene, just better than the K71.  With a system that is already warm sounding, the Rike might be a perfect choice.  I guess that makes sense as it was developed by a company that designs tube equipment. 

 

When I tried the Rike in the tweeter section of a passive crossover, I found a similar effect, clarity, focus, and dynamic range.  Choosing something warmer for the mid-bass crossover section was a really nice combination. 

 

One of the things that I really like about the Rike is that tone is very natural.  Polypropylene seems to give everything a slight plastic tone, polystyrene is fairly neutral but maybe a little harsh, and teflon, at least the Russian FT teflons, are a little slippery or oily in tone.  To me, paper in oil caps give a nice neutral and natural tone that I like very much.  The Rike is just the best of the PIO's that I've tried because it keeps its natural sound and opens up the detail in ways that most PIOs don't.

 

Overall, if you are looking for caps in the Rike price range, they are definitely worth a listen.  That is especially true if you goal is unveiled and detailed.

Thank you for this detailed review. :smile:I use now the Rike S-Caps (0,1uF) in my DAC and I'm satisfied overall. I like the PIO sound!

 


Edited by loserica - 3/24/14 at 10:04pm
post #441 of 655

today the WIMA MKP 80µF and 550µF film capacitors for my next DIY tube amp arrived, never had thought that they were that large, this is maybe the difference between reading and finally seeing the size:

 


Edited by GermanGuy - 3/26/14 at 10:25am
post #442 of 655

I recently changed my power amps again, so now I am out again looking for new DC blocking caps for my DCB1. The input impedance is now 22K (10 times less than my previous setup which was 220K) which means that the rolloff starts way early with my 0.47uF FT-3s.

 

The new value I need is at least 4.7uF to maintain the same deep enough rolloff, while Salas from diyaudio suggested I tried a 10uF one for even lower rolloff and to avoid some phase shifting thingies.

 

I have already ordered some K75-10 which will be bypassed with the old FT-3s, but I am open to suggestions.

 

Has anyone tried the non-polar Nichicon Muse ES series (metal green can) or compared them to the Russians??

post #443 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimkasta View Post

I recently changed my power amps again, so now I am out again looking for new DC blocking caps for my DCB1. The input impedance is now 22K (10 times less than my previous setup which was 220K) which means that the rolloff starts way early with my 0.47uF FT-3s.



The new value I need is at least 4.7uF to maintain the same deep enough rolloff, while Salas from diyaudio suggested I tried a 10uF one for even lower rolloff and to avoid some phase shifting thingies.



I have already ordered some K75-10 which will be bypassed with the old FT-3s, but I am open to suggestions.



Has anyone tried the non-polar Nichicon Muse ES series (metal green can) or compared them to the Russians??


 



I would seriously consider the new Auricap XO capacitors. They are not that expensive and do not fall far behind the best teflons IMO.
Edited by ronenash - 5/5/14 at 7:00am
post #444 of 655

Talking about the K75-10 reminded me I have a couple of pics of the 100uf K75 40b and 200uf JFX mods I am trying out

 

Basically using a Triad choke in place of a resistor and swapping out the last electrolytic capacitor in the power supply for a jfx 200uf  premium film. Also trying out some K75 100uf PIO (mylar)capacitors temporarily clipped in with some fly leads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #445 of 655

Damn those 100uF are huge :)

 

BTW the 10uF K75-10s I ordered are huge as well at 10cm x 5cm... that is HUGE... I really do not have the space for them in my current chassis.

 

In the meantime, I installed two K75-10 at 2.2uF in parallel, and bypassed them with my previous 0.47uF FT-3, giving me ~4.9uF.

You think it would be worth to add a 10nF FT-1 in there too? Or it should be way to fast and it would mess up the timing/phase shifting?

 

It was also a nice opportunity to change the wiring with the 32AWG medical grade silver wire that I got.

 

Unfortunately it's way too late for proper listening volume, but some initial listening showed that some of the bass is back, although the highs are a bit shy. I can t be certain though, because the PIOs are known for not working well in low volumes.

 

It was also a bit expected since everything is freshly soldered and most of the caps are not broken in, not to mention that my monoblocks have also just started their breaking in cycle and they also need a couple of resistors upgraded too..

But overall I am very excited with the present performance and the potential. If only some of the top end comes back and a bit of the "grandeur" in the mid-lows, and I ll be a happy camper :)


Edited by dimkasta - 5/5/14 at 3:56pm
post #446 of 655

Jamie, that scaffolding is starting to look a bit on the ridiculous side. LOL. Does it all still fit? When are you going to give up an A) build a bigger chassis B) Mainline.

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around using a choke to clean up the power supply. Any pointers?  If I understand the mechanics, the bridge rectifier craps out a lot of noise and the capacitance reservoir of PS is supposed to bury it. But in practice this reservoir is still muddy because output is always still tied to input. Electricity is not water. :smile:  So its best to clean it up before it goes in. My understanding of implementing electronics is very minimal... like my theory. But I'm pushing my knowledge to get better tunes. :)  .... currently hunting for a used scope.

 

And that JFX is mammoth. I guess there's bypassing the last cap... and replacing the last cap with film. Two totally different animals.

post #447 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightFlight View Post
 

Jamie, that scaffolding is starting to look a bit on the ridiculous side. LOL. Does it all still fit? When are you going to give up an A) build a bigger chassis B) Mainline.

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around using a choke to clean up the power supply. Any pointers?  If I understand the mechanics, the bridge rectifier craps out a lot of noise and the capacitance reservoir of PS is supposed to bury it. But in practice this reservoir is still muddy because output is always still tied to input. Electricity is not water. :smile:  So its best to clean it up before it goes in. My understanding of implementing electronics is very minimal... like my theory. But I'm pushing my knowledge to get better tunes. :)  .... currently hunting for a used scope.

 

And that JFX is mammoth. I guess there's bypassing the last cap... and replacing the last cap with film. Two totally different animals.


It looks better in the flesh, the original idea was to replace the last electrolytic cap with the big film which I had ordered prior to thinking about the choke mod, I expect 100uf or even less would be plenty but as I had it I thought what the heck why not use it :bigsmile_face: 

 

The choke mod is not expensive and easy enough to implement try it and see, I was pleased with the results.

 

I think I am close to being done with this Crack other than some tidying up of the cables and connection with some heat shrink which I have on order. Its been have had a lot of fun and will do another one for sure maybe in a bigger chassis and implement some of the things I have learnt along the way with some new ideas that have been mulling over.  Both the Mainline and Sex beckon but funds for new  toys are a little tight at the moment. 

 

No it does not all still fit in I ran out of ground clearance due only to the large cap I made a new enclosure which is 20mm deeper so all the guts do not hang out underneath.

 

Its sounding sublime at the moment often when listening I am just awe struck by the sound I'm experiencing.

 


Edited by JamieMcC - 5/7/14 at 5:19am
post #448 of 655

That is a nice new box. I like the look and handles. Good idea.

What have you got in the pre and power sockets?

 

Has anyone documented hacking in a choke into the power supply? I've read enough that you can't just drop anything in and doing so requires a sufficient theoretical knowledge of what your doing to adjust - or order the correct part.  I'm guessing I should just start out by building my own diode rectified PS on a breadboard and fiddle until it all becomes self evident. 

post #449 of 655

Pre is a Tunsgram E80cc Nickel/silver plate

Power is a GEC 6AS7G 

post #450 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightFlight View Post

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around using a choke to clean up the power supply. Any pointers?  If I understand the mechanics, the bridge rectifier craps out a lot of noise and the capacitance reservoir of PS is supposed to bury it. But in practice this reservoir is still muddy because output is always still tied to input. Electricity is not water. :smile:  So its best to clean it up before it goes in. My understanding of implementing electronics is very minimal... like my theory. But I'm pushing my knowledge to get better tunes. :)  .... currently hunting for a used scope.

Bridge diodes not only create switching spikes, but also they ring in high frequencies when they close because of their reverse capacitance and some other parasitic thingies.

A solution is to filter them with something like polypropylene film caps. A usual value is 100nF or so, but if you want to be accurate, check this out http://www.hagtech.com/pdf/snubber.pdf

Another solution is to use some fast and soft switching diodes like MUR or something. Not that those do not need filtering, but the problem is quite less pronounced with them.

 

The second problem is that your filter bank (CRC or whatever) might not be enough to smooth out the entire switching spike, or it might not be fast enough, so one solution is to add more capacitance, bypassing the big caps with smaller ones with smaller ESR (ergo faster) to allow for faster filtering, but also for quicker discharge when the highs/mids require the energy quickly. When the highs need some energy super fast, they can get it from the smaller caps with lower ESR, and when the time comes for the big bassy music discharge, the bigger caps take over.

In that sense, BIG transformers are also a good idea because they recharge the bank in fewer voltage swings or even in one.

 

Now about CLC, I have to say that I do not like using chokes, but for completely different reasons. Not that they do not work, I have read many good things about them, but inductance is something I do not quite grasp well so far, not to mention that chokes are harder to source and/or measure properly. Perhaps someone else can help us with some layman's terms on it :)

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